Do you hate Tony Blair?

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Do you hate Tony Blair?

Yes, I hate him.
9
39%
No, I dislike him, but below the hate level.
7
30%
No, I'm neutral, neither hate, dislike, like or love him.
3
13%
No, I like him alright.
4
17%
No, I love him - best Prime Minister Evah!
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 23

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:07 pm

Tigger wrote:
Posse Comitatus wrote:
Tigger wrote:
They might work for you - I don't intend to listen to the fucker ever again, no matter what you find retrospectively to support your misconceptions - and you are, after all, very young. /patronise
Me being young means what exactly? I grew up under New Labour. I was at least partially lucid from the start of the project to it's conclusion.
Bulllshit. He posed no threat to the world. More UK citizens have died because of Bliar than Hussein could have achieved with his scuds inter alia.
I really don't care if they were British or otherwise. Also saying he poses no threat to the world is just ludicrous- particularly if we're counting his own citizens (and esp. the Kurds).
Serious thread is serious
And? He's seriously pretty. The issue debated is whether I hate Tony Blair and why that might or might not be the case. I don't hate him precisely because, at least in part, I think he's pretty. Ergo relevance.

Oh and people trotting out the same supercilious pejorative nonsense ("He's a liar", "He's a cunt" etc) hardly makes for a credibly serious thread in and of itself- certainly no less so than comments of the opposite but ultimately equally insubstantial nature ("he's very pretty" etc)
Education policy fail :read: *snork*
TEE HEE

Very well spotted. Also you missed a period there.


Oh wait, it doesn't matter even slightly.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:08 pm

Posse Comitatus wrote:also claims that he's not intelligent are just ludicrous and really rather petty...
Why? Because you say so?
Posse Comitatus wrote:
Tigger wrote: Wow. In my opinion he was one of the worst public speakers I've ever come across. Maybe because here in the UK we got all of the shit he puked out without filters, but his hesitant speech, umming and erring all the fucking time was cringe-worthy. And, he's a cunt. Did I say that already?



These both work rather nicely.
This is what impresses you? Empty clichéd rhetoric and appeals to emotion?
Posse Comitatus wrote:he's also really rather pretty.
And it looks like one of his enduring legacies is going to be a series of identikit party leaders for the foreseeable future. Cameron? The Miliband brothers?

Give me the ugly politicians of the past anyday.
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Tigger » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:14 pm

Tuition fees, anyone?
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:15 pm

Why? Because you say so?
What? Did I write "He's intelligent because I say so"? No. He's intelligent because he just demonstrably is- a degree from Oxford is normally a sure enough sign, and there's also the fact that he rose, and remained in for a good amount of time, to the highest office in the UK. It's really not something you fall into.
This is what impresses you? Empty clichéd rhetoric and appeals to emotion?
Yes. Besides, particularly with the Diana clip the genius of the thing comes with the context.
And it looks like one of his enduring legacies is going to be a series of identikit party leaders for the foreseeable future. Cameron? The Miliband brothers?
It's not his legacy. If the party or the people wanted, say, Diane Abbott they could easily still elect her. They don't and they won't. We reap what we sow.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:17 pm

Tigger wrote:Tuition fees, anyone?
Oh I'll agree with you there- Universities still face a funding shortfall. On introduction he should never have capped them at such low rates.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Tigger » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:18 pm

National debt anyone?
//
Gordon Brown, he gave is that cunt as well. :nono:
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:28 pm

Posse Comitatus wrote:...a degree from Oxford is normally a sure enough sign...
Oh yeah, 'cause no dipshit has ever got a degree from Oxford! :roll:

Bush got a degree from Harvard - is that a sure enough sign of intelligence?
Posse Comitatus wrote:...and there's also the fact that he rose, and remained in for a good amount of time, to the highest office in the UK...
Given the people who have rose to this position in the past, forgive me if I'm none too impressed.
Posse Comitatus wrote:...Besides, particularly with the Diana clip the genius of the thing comes with the context...
No. It really doesn't. :coffee:
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Pappa » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:35 pm

Tigger wrote:National debt anyone?
Everything Blair did was done without a national debate. All the anti-terrorism laws (that are now being used against everyone) were all brought in without any discussion or fuss.
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by owtth » Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:37 pm

Posse Comitatus wrote:Oh I do have an opinion, it's just that my opinion is that he's amazing. And good shout on the level of debate here- but the reality is my offerings have been no less substantive than yours or indeed pretty much anyone else's from the anti-Blair camp. The only difference is you don't quite agree with what I'm saying.
Please don't criticise the level of debate when your contribution consists of "precious", even I give you more credit than that even if it is unjust.Do you wish to address whether or not your blessed Saint Tony was lying through his teeth when he misled you into war? It is a simple question, was he telling the truth or was he being economical with the truth? I even phrased it in wishy washy language that a lying son of a bitch that needlessly killed thousands could understand. Or have you another take on this situation that doesn't involve belittling me or is not beyond your paygrade, precious?
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:09 am

owtth wrote:It is a simple question, was he telling the truth or was he being economical with the truth?
Oh do change the record. It's really never been substantiated that Blair actually lied. What did he lie about exactly?
Bush got a degree from Harvard - is that a sure enough sign of intelligence?
lol yes.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Posse Comitatus » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:22 am

Everything Blair did was done without a national debate. All the anti-terrorism laws (that are now being used against everyone) were all brought in without any discussion or fuss.
Yes, well, other than three elections which each time met him with a resounding majority, despite at least one of the major opposition parties, the Lib Dems, making the issue of civil liberties basically the crux of their manifesto at least twice. Didn't work, because, by and large, and from canvassing experience, people really, really aren't bothered about civil liberties.

Even the attempted CL legislation that was just ludicrous- ie 42 days detention without charge, virtually all polls indicated a majority of the public remained in favour. If there wasn't much of a debate it was because the public was basically already decided- and as it happens fell on Blair's side of the argument.

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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by owtth » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:51 pm

Posse Comitatus wrote:
owtth wrote:It is a simple question, was he telling the truth or was he being economical with the truth?
Oh do change the record. It's really never been substantiated that Blair actually lied. What did he lie about exactly?
He lied about WMDs he lied about the war's legality and he lied to his own cabinet about his preparations for war.
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Tigger » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:21 pm

Tony Blair The Unmitigated Cunt wrote: "I would just point out to the hon. Lady that we returned the donation."
then ...
Tony Blair The Unmitigated Cunt wrote: "We have said that we will give the money back."
(http://www.labour-watch.com/blairlie.htm)

Easy to find the lies if you want to look for the truth rather than using your imagination, as vivid as it might be.
He didn't write it really, but I wanted to use the quotey thingy.
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by AnInconvenientScotsman » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:08 pm

I thought the whole point of Major's government was that the cabinet was crap?
Major's Cabinet was made up of MPs as equally well supported within the Tory party and as capable of being PM as he was (not that that says a lot). With Major at their head they were without leadership or direction. The PM has to lead the Cabinet - it doesn't matter how strong individual components of the Cabinet are, as depts have to work in tandem, often with opposing Ministers in charge - and to do that they must be strong. In this, Blair had a lot of what it takes to be a great PM but he fucked up.


I read this the other day, it's quite interesting:
The tragedy of Tony Blair, what he was and what he became

This summer, Tony Blair stood on foreign soil, recalled a military adventure past and declared: “I did what was right. I did what was just. I did not regret it then. I do not regret it now." If the formulation sounds familiar, the conflict is unlikely to be the one that first comes to mind. The former prime minister and Labour leader from 1994 to 2007 was in fact speaking in Pristina, the capital of Kosovo. In 1999 he had been instrumental in calling for a Nato-led intervention in the conflict between Albanian Muslim fighters in the former Yugoslav province of Kosovo and the Serbia of the late dictator Slobodan Milosevic. Mr Blair's role then means that today he is received as a hero in Kosovo: during the visit to Pristina in July he was greeted by no fewer than nine boys named either Toni or Tonibler in his honour.

But it is his decision to intervene elsewhere in the world, in Iraq in 2003, that so diminished his reputation and discredited the doctrine of liberal interventionism. Ridiculed and reviled at home, lauded in Kosovo, Sierra Leone and many parts of the United States, our former prime minister - and Labour's most successful leader, in terms of elections won - now has a strange half-and-half life: rootless, haunted, disparaged. He has become a habitué of the club class lounge and luxury international hotel, ceaselessly on the move, never at peace, like a fugitive in his own land.

Inevitably, Mr Blair devotes a lengthy section of his 718-page memoirs, A Journey (published on 1 September), to Iraq. And, sadly, he continues to elide, deceive and mislead. He insists, for example, that he did not "guess the nightmare that unfolded" in Iraq. But the truth is he didn't need to guess: in November 2002, six of the country's leading academic experts on Iraq, as well as the former prime minister John Major, warned him of the catastrophic consequences that would follow invasion. Mr Blair asks, of Saddam Hussein, why he brought "war upon his country to protect a myth", when he knows full well that an avoidable war was instigated by the legally questionable invasion. When he asks why Saddam "obstructed" the weapons inspectors, he is directly contradicting Hans Blix, the UN's lead inspector in Iraq at the time.

That he wanted to intervene abroad is not the objection (the reluctance of the great powers to act in Rwanda in 1994 was part of the justification Mr Blair gave for the later, justified actions in Kosovo and Sierra Leone). The objection to him, then as now, is that he was wilfully led into a fatal neocon misadventure by George W Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney. Many among the political classes, including an ineffectual Conservative Party led by Iain Duncan Smith, may have supported him, but Charles Kennedy's Lib Dems did not, nor did the late Robin Cook, nor the million who marched against the war in London in 2003. We agree with David Miliband, who, at our leadership hustings in June, said: "The worst thing that happened to Tony Blair was George Bush."

Yet let us not forget what Mr Blair once represented, nor what he achieved. The early years in power were defined by bold liberal and social-democratic reform - witness the introduction of the minimum wage, the windfall tax on the privatised utilities, devolution in Scotland, Wales and London, the Human Rights Act and independence for the Bank of England. But somewhere towards the end of his first term something changed, and the energy and purpose morphed into a doctrinaire zeal, both at home and abroad.

That Mr Blair's book is self-serving is of little surprise - which autobiography isn't? - but it simply reaffirms the image of a politician whose moral fervour distorted once-good judgement. What disappoints most, however, is his post-power "dash for cash": £2.5m a year advising the US investment bank JPMorgan on globalisation, an undisclosed six-figure yearly sum from the Swiss financial firm Zurich insurance, £500,000 from the Washington Speakers Bureau for a worldwide tour of public engagements, and so on.

It is true that Mr Blair's unpaid role as envoy for the Middle East Quartet offers an alternative outlet for his powers of persuasion and, perhaps, gives him a chance to rebuild his reputation in the Muslim world. Indeed, he was kept away from Britain on the day his book was published to attend the opening of the Israel and Palestine talks in Washington.

In the postscript of his memoir, he offers, in effect, an endorsement of the coalition government's economic policy, arguing that he would have raised VAT and cut the deficit faster than Labour would have done. It is some measure of his political journey that his views on the economy are closer to David Cameron and George Osborne's than to those of any of the Labour leadership candidates. A tragedy, indeed.
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Re: Do you hate Tony Blair?

Post by Pappa » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:05 pm

Posse Comitatus wrote:[
Yes, well, other than three elections which each time met him with a resounding majority, despite at least one of the major opposition parties, the Lib Dems, making the issue of civil liberties basically the crux of their manifesto at least twice. Didn't work, because, by and large, and from canvassing experience, people really, really aren't bothered about civil liberties.
That's mostly because they are stupid and have been propagandised and conditioned into only considering crime and health when deciding how to vote.

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