Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

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Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Bolero » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:44 am

...and they were delicious.

No, what I was going to say was this far more serious thing:

About two years ago these friends of ours lost their baby (very premmie), and last night when I was talking to the wife about the whole situation, she was saying that the baby's death caused her to really question her faith in god, and if it wasn't for the fact that her husband was so strong and unwavering in his faith, she may have lost it altogether.

Now, dreadful situation, but I was really thinking to myself it was quite a shame that she didn't just listen to her own reasoning and sod the husband. Am I a terrible person for having such thoughts? :oops:
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by JimC » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:52 am

Bolero wrote:...and they were delicious.

No, what I was going to say was this far more serious thing:

About two years ago these friends of ours lost their baby (very premmie), and last night when I was talking to the wife about the whole situation, she was saying that the baby's death caused her to really question her faith in god, and if it wasn't for the fact that her husband was so strong and unwavering in his faith, she may have lost it altogether.

Now, dreadful situation, but I was really thinking to myself it was quite a shame that she didn't just listen to her own reasoning and sod the husband. Am I a terrible person for having such thoughts? :oops:
Of course you are a terrible person, or you wouldn't be on this forum! :twisted:

But your thoughts are very, very sensible... :tup:

My own wife is a catholic (nominally), but hasn't taken an active part in anything churchy (other than the odd funeral) for years - the religious thing seems to fade with disuse...
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Rum » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:52 am

Bolero wrote:...and they were delicious.

No, what I was going to say was this far more serious thing:

About two years ago these friends of ours lost their baby (very premmie), and last night when I was talking to the wife about the whole situation, she was saying that the baby's death caused her to really question her faith in god, and if it wasn't for the fact that her husband was so strong and unwavering in his faith, she may have lost it altogether.

Now, dreadful situation, but I was really thinking to myself it was quite a shame that she didn't just listen to her own reasoning and sod the husband. Am I a terrible person for having such thoughts? :oops:
I think this is a difficult one. People do find comfort in religion, rightly or wrongly and I guess my view is that to challenge that when they are vulnerable is not fair. I would not do it certainly.

In another context, i.e. if the conversation was not about losing the baby I think it would be fair enough, but clearly there was a link between the two issues in the conversation you were having.

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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Trolldor » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:20 am

A false refuge gives no shelter.
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Pappa » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:35 am

Bolero wrote:Now, dreadful situation, but I was really thinking to myself it was quite a shame that she didn't just listen to her own reasoning and sod the husband. Am I a terrible person for having such thoughts? :oops:
No.

I'm not sure I'd broach the subject with the person themselves, it could be far too painful for them... but I would surreptitiously try to explain my own delight and happiness in nihilism, try to infect them with it, see the universe as wonderful, beautiful, amazing, yet lacking in any meaning. If they caught that particular bug, they'd drop God in a flash and be happy too.
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:41 am

Pappa wrote:
Bolero wrote:Now, dreadful situation, but I was really thinking to myself it was quite a shame that she didn't just listen to her own reasoning and sod the husband. Am I a terrible person for having such thoughts? :oops:
No.

I'm not sure I'd broach the subject with the person themselves, it could be far too painful for them... but I would surreptitiously try to explain my own delight and happiness in nihilism, try to infect them with it, see the universe as wonderful, beautiful, amazing, yet lacking in any meaning. If they caught that particular bug, they'd drop God in a flash and be happy too.
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Svartalf » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:48 am

The Mad Hatter wrote:A false refuge gives no shelter.
Well, you may die of exposure, but you'll do so convinced you're toasty.
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by JimC » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:28 pm

Svartalf wrote:
The Mad Hatter wrote:A false refuge gives no shelter.
Well, you may die of exposure, but you'll do so convinced you're toasty.
With the extra pleasure of knowing that everybody else will be extremely, uncomfortably toasty... :twisted:
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Bella Fortuna » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:30 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Bolero wrote:Now, dreadful situation, but I was really thinking to myself it was quite a shame that she didn't just listen to her own reasoning and sod the husband. Am I a terrible person for having such thoughts? :oops:
No.

I'm not sure I'd broach the subject with the person themselves, it could be far too painful for them... but I would surreptitiously try to explain my own delight and happiness in nihilism, try to infect them with it, see the universe as wonderful, beautiful, amazing, yet lacking in any meaning. If they caught that particular bug, they'd drop God in a flash and be happy too.
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Eriku » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:36 pm

Bolero wrote:...and they were delicious.

No, what I was going to say was this far more serious thing:

About two years ago these friends of ours lost their baby (very premmie), and last night when I was talking to the wife about the whole situation, she was saying that the baby's death caused her to really question her faith in god, and if it wasn't for the fact that her husband was so strong and unwavering in his faith, she may have lost it altogether.

Now, dreadful situation, but I was really thinking to myself it was quite a shame that she didn't just listen to her own reasoning and sod the husband. Am I a terrible person for having such thoughts? :oops:
Do they know you don't have any faith? Has the subject of "why do bad things happen?" come up, and have you explained how these problems are approached from your standpoint?

Just curious.

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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Santa_Claus » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:08 pm

When dead people are involved always polite to let people deal with things in their own way - when you lose folk very close to you will understand that not everything makes logical sense.

FWIW when me wife fell off her perch a couple of years back she got a Catholic Funeral Service, a Budhist cremation at a temple and will (when I get around to it) interred in a C of E grave (cremation wasn't anywhere near dust - I know, as I decanted her into her pot by hand). Sometimes when I stare at the Moon I wonder if she made it there..............she always had a thing about going to the moon (albeit I think more figuratively). She was a converted Budhist, because of an intense disdain for Budhists. Nearly became a Muslim (due to her schooling) as good food, but 5 times a day praying was too much. But couldn't remember which branch of chrstianity she was, mainly converted because she thought she had to be something, and christianity had some status. Mainly she was a sociopath from a family of likeminded souls. who in their day were very succesful at it business wise. it's how we met.

If I hadn't always been an atheist I would have had no choice but to follow her, as she weren't going to end up sitting on a cloud according to the books of most religions. Would I have been of any use? - who knows, but somethings you do because they need doing and not because of the good outcome. In fact one of my regrets is that their are no gods or supernatural bogeyman as in this life I missed out on the crawling over broken glass opportunity with her.

BTW the religous funeral thngs were / are about respect for her (and family) and as a comfort to me (even though I know the mumbo jumbo is nosense) - I'm a pragmatist, if the religions are custodians of the principal funeral and burial sites I will use them.

And that's Atheist in the same way as I don't beleive Trees can play football. or ride bicycles.

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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Bolero » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:09 am

Eriku wrote:
Bolero wrote:...and they were delicious.

No, what I was going to say was this far more serious thing:

About two years ago these friends of ours lost their baby (very premmie), and last night when I was talking to the wife about the whole situation, she was saying that the baby's death caused her to really question her faith in god, and if it wasn't for the fact that her husband was so strong and unwavering in his faith, she may have lost it altogether.

Now, dreadful situation, but I was really thinking to myself it was quite a shame that she didn't just listen to her own reasoning and sod the husband. Am I a terrible person for having such thoughts? :oops:
Do they know you don't have any faith? Has the subject of "why do bad things happen?" come up, and have you explained how these problems are approached from your standpoint?

Just curious.
They know I'm not "as religious" as my husband, but they don't really know that I'm an out-and-out atheist (although if they paid any attention at all to their facebook newsfeeds, they'd surely have worked it out by now).

I agree that it was really the wrong time to have that chat with her, but I just wish I could have given her a non-god comforting at the time (2 years ago). Just wasn't in the same city.

I also feel angry and frustrated with the father who's managed to convince her and himself that the death of their child was somehow "part of the plan". That sort of thing makes me sick.

(edit: typo)
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Trolldor » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:11 am

It makes me... not pity, and it's not empathise because I don't know what they're feeling... well, I feel bad for them because it's the only way they can think of to reconcile the tragedy in to some sort of sensible act they can recover from.

But they won't, especially the woman. Most likely she still doubts but puts on a brave face, invests herself deeper because she's compensating for what she no longer feels.
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Bolero » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:03 am

The Mad Hatter wrote:It makes me... not pity, and it's not empathise because I don't know what they're feeling... well, I feel bad for them because it's the only way they can think of to reconcile the tragedy in to some sort of sensible act they can recover from.

But they won't, especially the woman. Most likely she still doubts but puts on a brave face, invests herself deeper because she's compensating for what she no longer feels.
Fair enough. I suppose my reaction may be more negative because of my continuing close proximity to religion through my spouse, and the subsequent series of frustrations that occur on a daily basis.
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Re: Had Christian friends over for dinner last night...

Post by Trolldor » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:11 am

Maybe, maybe not. You know these people, I don't. You've seen how they behave and act, I don't. You could very well be right. You have a better picture of the situation than I do.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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