Well, no shit. Thanks CNN - Voting derail

[sandinista]

62,040,610 in 2004.

59,208,444 voted for the other guy. Y'know, whatshisname, that guy made out of wood...

So what we're saying is, the smart people stayed home?

That would be larger numbers than either of those, so maybe it's not such a problem after all.

Same in Canaduh, the smart people stay home, they KNOW there is no choice so choose not to participate.

[Ian]

62,040,610 in 2004.

59,208,444 voted for the other guy. Y'know, whatshisname, that guy made out of wood...

So what we're saying is, the smart people stayed home?

That would be larger numbers than either of those, so maybe it's not such a problem after all.

Same in Canaduh, the smart people stay home, they KNOW there is no choice so choose not to participate.

That's really lame. "I don't like my choices, so I'll just sit home and let others participate. Then I'll bitch about it."

Have some sack and try to shape the process. Move it in a particular direction, even if some elections it's only a choice of the lesser between two whatevers. Try making your own choices instead of being passive defiant and doing nothing and hoping that the perfect choice will eventually show itself to you.

For those people who don't bother to vote, in whatever country: FUCK your opinions after the election. You had a chance to do something for a subject that interests you, and instead you ignored it all, claiming you're too smart for it. All evidence to the contrary!

[Robert_S]

62,040,610 in 2004.

59,208,444 voted for the other guy. Y'know, whatshisname, that guy made out of wood...

So what we're saying is, the smart people stayed home?

That would be larger numbers than either of those, so maybe it's not such a problem after all.

Same in Canaduh, the smart people stay home, they KNOW there is no choice so choose not to participate.

That's really lame. "I don't like my choices, so I'll just sit home and let others participate. Then I'll bitch about it."

Have some sack and try to shape the process. Move it in a particular direction, even if some elections it's only a choice of the lesser between two whatevers. Try making your own choices instead of being passive defiant and doing nothing and hoping that the perfect choice will eventually show itself to you.

For those people who don't bother to vote, in whatever country: FUCK your opinions after the election. You had a chance to do something for a subject that interests you, and instead you ignored it all, claiming you're too smart for it. All evidence to the contrary!

Especially in local elections, because hardly anybody pays attention to those - but it's really important who's mayor and who's on the city council, county commissioners, sheriffs, district attorney, and of course the school board.

But it is so much more easy to criticize from an impotent position. As soon as you start getting into real politics, getting real people together to do something in the present, things get all sorts of complicated.

I keep telling people to go and vote. If the masses of voters who don't feel they have a choice actually went and voted in the local elections, but left the national part blank; I think that would do a world of good for anyone trying to put together a third or fourth party candidacy.

Alas, I have come to the conclusion that most of those people just don't give enough of a damn to get off their asses and show up.

[Svartalf]

maybe it's lame, but Western world politics are so rotten that the "vote cthulhu, why choose the lesser evil" meme we've found in recent US elections is making detestable sense.

In the last 15 years, I've tended to vote more often than not, because I saw it as a duty, but seriously, there have been a number of cases when I deemed that neither gentleman was less horrible enough than the alternative for me to feel able to vote for a character I still essentially despised. This is all the more true as in France you send more of a message by abstaining than by blank voting or other solutions.

[Ian]

maybe it's lame, but Western world politics are so rotten that the "vote cthulhu, why choose the lesser evil" meme we've found in recent US elections is making detestable sense.

In the last 15 years, I've tended to vote more often than not, because I saw it as a duty, but seriously, there have been a number of cases when I deemed that neither gentleman was less horrible enough than the alternative for me to feel able to vote for a character I still essentially despised. This is all the more true as in France you send more of a message by abstaining than by blank voting or other solutions.

The French must not be too bright then. That's the attitude of a peasant who feels utterly powerless. It's incorrect, especially given the sheer numbers of those peasants.

The US midterms are coming up in a few months. Some Democrat voters are frustrated that Obama hasn't been moving things toward the left even faster (although I fail to see how he could move much faster than he has). Who benefits if those Democrats "send a message" by staying home? The Republicans. Next time around, those Democratic voters won't be whining about sending a message - they'll be climbing back uphill, desperate to try and unseat Speaker Boehner!

[sandinista]

62,040,610 in 2004.

59,208,444 voted for the other guy. Y'know, whatshisname, that guy made out of wood...

So what we're saying is, the smart people stayed home?

That would be larger numbers than either of those, so maybe it's not such a problem after all.

Same in Canaduh, the smart people stay home, they KNOW there is no choice so choose not to participate.

That's really lame. "I don't like my choices, so I'll just sit home and let others participate. Then I'll bitch about it."

Have some sack and try to shape the process. Move it in a particular direction, even if some elections it's only a choice of the lesser between two whatevers. Try making your own choices instead of being passive defiant and doing nothing and hoping that the perfect choice will eventually show itself to you.

For those people who don't bother to vote, in whatever country: FUCK your opinions after the election. You had a chance to do something for a subject that interests you, and instead you ignored it all, claiming you're too smart for it. All evidence to the contrary!

Not lame at all, just choosing not to participate in a sham. As for "fucking you opinions" after an election, thats a fucking stupid thing to say. Voting DOES NOT equal "doing nothing", thats naive.

[Ian]

62,040,610 in 2004.

59,208,444 voted for the other guy. Y'know, whatshisname, that guy made out of wood...

So what we're saying is, the smart people stayed home?

That would be larger numbers than either of those, so maybe it's not such a problem after all.

Same in Canaduh, the smart people stay home, they KNOW there is no choice so choose not to participate.

That's really lame. "I don't like my choices, so I'll just sit home and let others participate. Then I'll bitch about it."

Have some sack and try to shape the process. Move it in a particular direction, even if some elections it's only a choice of the lesser between two whatevers. Try making your own choices instead of being passive defiant and doing nothing and hoping that the perfect choice will eventually show itself to you.

For those people who don't bother to vote, in whatever country: FUCK your opinions after the election. You had a chance to do something for a subject that interests you, and instead you ignored it all, claiming you're too smart for it. All evidence to the contrary!

Not lame at all, just choosing not to participate in a sham. As for "fucking you opinions" after an election, thats a fucking stupid thing to say. Voting DOES NOT equal "doing nothing", thats naive.

Excuses are like assholes. But I don't need to tell you that.

[Santa_Claus]

Seems that folks are a bit confused about what anglo -saxon style democracy is all about.

It's got SFA about empowering the peasants - it's about providing a route to power for those who would otherwise fight for it and to enable power to move between vested interests without the need for bloodshed.

Not to say that no benefits for the peasantry, mostly about not being the ones actually doing the fighting. But also peaceful movement of power allows a society to progress - how much the peasant class benefits is another matter.

It's the reason why modern politicians are never the great movers and shakers of times passed. The real power has moved from a single centre with the politicians nowadays merely being represenatives. just not of the peasantry.

Main downside is that not only allows but demands that the treasury be looted.

[sandinista]

Ian

Excuses are like assholes. But I don't need to tell you that.

What the fuck are you on about? Excuse for what? Or is that just your petty, lame, sad excuse to call me an asshole? Oooh so hurt.

[Feck]

For those people who don't bother to vote, in whatever country: FUCK your opinions after the election. You had a chance to do something for a subject that interests you, and instead you ignored it all, claiming you're too smart for it. All evidence to the contrary!

I voted ... in an electoral ward that had 2 likely candidates neither of which I could have voted for with any conscience , We had a hung parliament and a third party sold out on ALL their electoral promises to form a government with a party NOBODY in Scotland voted for (and a minority in the UK as a whole)

The entire sham was carried out against the will of the majority of the population and even the majority of voters

My right to vote is worth exactly what I can sell it for ,which is nothing ! politicians will sell out EVERY principle they pretend to have for the sake of keeping their cushy jobs (and the money they get afterwards from friends they did favours for ) so forgive me if I'm a little cynical about democracy

I would happily give up my right to vote for any one of the Almost 200 civil rights that have been taken away from me by successive "democratic" governments.

[RuleBritannia]

If voting changed anything, they'd ban it.

[Ian]

Ian

Excuses are like assholes. But I don't need to tell you that.

What the fuck are you on about? Excuse for what?

Excuses for not voting. If you don't want to, fine - but don't claim it's because it's all a sham and you're too smart for it. That's really pathetic.

I can conclude this whole issue by pointing to a single example: the US elections in 2000. Maybe it was all a "sham" in your view. Maybe both candidates were distasteful to John Q. Voter. But the idea that no real change comes either way is a crock of shit. If a tiny higher percentage of people in Florida showed up, or didn't waste their votes on Nader and checked the Democrat instead, we would've had President Gore instead of President Bush. Tell me that wouldn't have made any real difference!

(btw - the "smart" ones don't stay home. The more educated people are, the more likely they are to show up on election day. Basic demographics.)

[Ian]

I voted ... in an electoral ward that had 2 likely candidates neither of which I could have voted for with any conscience , We had a hung parliament and a third party sold out on ALL their electoral promises to form a government with a party NOBODY in Scotland voted for (and a minority in the UK as a whole)

The entire sham was carried out against the will of the majority of the population and even the majority of voters

My right to vote is worth exactly what I can sell it for ,which is nothing ! politicians will sell out EVERY principle they pretend to have for the sake of keeping their cushy jobs (and the money they get afterwards from friends they did favours for ) so forgive me if I'm a little cynical about democracy

I would happily give up my right to vote for any one of the Almost 200 civil rights that have been taken away from me by successive "democratic" governments.

Hey, at least you stood up and raised your hand. You can gripe about the problems of having a republic instead of a pure democracy I suppose. But at least you gave it a shot.

EDIT: Feck, you actually proved my point! You voted - you deserve to have an opinion after the fact!

[Robert_S]

62,040,610 in 2004.

59,208,444 voted for the other guy. Y'know, whatshisname, that guy made out of wood...

So what we're saying is, the smart people stayed home?

That would be larger numbers than either of those, so maybe it's not such a problem after all.

Same in Canaduh, the smart people stay home, they KNOW there is no choice so choose not to participate.

That's really lame. "I don't like my choices, so I'll just sit home and let others participate. Then I'll bitch about it."

Have some sack and try to shape the process. Move it in a particular direction, even if some elections it's only a choice of the lesser between two whatevers. Try making your own choices instead of being passive defiant and doing nothing and hoping that the perfect choice will eventually show itself to you.

For those people who don't bother to vote, in whatever country: FUCK your opinions after the election. You had a chance to do something for a subject that interests you, and instead you ignored it all, claiming you're too smart for it. All evidence to the contrary!

Not lame at all, just choosing not to participate in a sham. As for "fucking you opinions" after an election, thats a fucking stupid thing to say. Voting DOES NOT equal "doing nothing", thats naive.

So, in Canada, are the local and national elections on the same day? Can you vote for the people who are in charge of the local schools, the mayor, sheriff, or whatever on the same ballot as the representatives on the national level?

Think what message it would send to have people actually Show Up to say they don't much care for the options at the national level.

Not lame at all, just choosing not to participate in a sham. As for "fucking you opinions" after an election, thats a fucking stupid thing to say. Voting DOES NOT equal "doing nothing", thats naive.

For a great many people it actually does mean precisely that. if you're going out and raising a ruckus somewhere and getting some attention drawn to your arguement that the elections are a sham, that's one thing. But unless you do something public, the default assumption is that you didn't give enough of a damn.

[maiforpeace]

I was going to say something about the percentage of Republicans who still think Obama is a muslim, but I think I'll pass...

McConnell: I Take Obama 'At His Word' That He's A Christian

First Posted: 08-22-10 11:51 AM | Updated: 08-22-10 12:46 PM

With a growing portion of the populace convinced that President Obama is a Muslim, political observers and reporters have begun asking just how such information could be so widely disseminated. On Sunday, their ears perked a bit when Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) would only go so far as to take Obama "at this word" that he was a Christian.

"The president says he's a Christian. I take him at his word. I don't think that's in dispute," McConnell told Meet the Press host David Gregory. "I think the faith that most Americans are questioning is the President's faith in the government to generate jobs. We've had an 18-month effort here on the part of this administration to prime the pump, borrow money, spend money, hire new federal government employees, sending money down to states so they don't have to layoff state employees. People are saying: Where are the jobs? The president's faith in the government to stimulate the economy is what people are questioning."

Politico's Mike Allen gave the exchange top treatment in his daily Playbook email, under the header "SIREN -- OR SHOULD WE SAY "DOG WHISTLE"? NBC's Chuck Todd, via Twitter, offered his own take, noting that it was an "Odd way to phrase it."

That's perhaps an understatement. McConnell may have been trying to avoid engagement in a debate defined both by confusion and, under the surface, a bit of Islamophobia. But by constructing his response in such a peculiar way -- suggesting that the debate over Obama's religion was legitimate and that the president was arguing one side of it -- he not only invited the type of skeptical coverage he received Sunday morning but will further spur claims that the GOP doesn't mind having this image of Obama spread.

During the 2008 presidential campaign, then Sen. Hillary Clinton offered the same type of evasive response to the same type of Obama-is-a-Muslim rumors. For days, if not weeks, she was dogged with accusations that she wanted voters to be skeptical about Obama's faith.