George Galloway

[Azathoth]

and what gives the US the right to decide who stays or doesn't stay in power?

The motherfuckin' declaration of Human rights. Governments lose legitimate claim to power when they violate the international bill of Human rights. Government, even its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst, an intolerable one. Rights exist to protect the citizen from the state, and when the state become a major transgressor it opens itself to revolution, reform or thorough removal. Saddam's regime was a monstrosity which had elected itself through its own actions to be a subject of international concern. The US acted on the egalitarian principles it was founded upon, and swiftly deposed a tyrant which had held dominion for too long on the people oil of Iraq.

Robert Mugabe is a massive cunt too. There is fuck all worth having in Zimbabwe though so they leave him alone

[Toontown]

9/11 was a wake-up call for the US to stop being an imperial power and militarist war monger...someone must have hit snooze.

Oh? Is that how bin Laden imagined it?

No wonder monkeys are always at war. They have poor social skills and even less reasoning ability. Monkey thinks the big monkey in the troop is an imperial warmonger, so he goes and slaps the big monkey upside the head. Expecting to be rewarded with...peace?

Yeah, peace just broke out all over, didn't it.

The ways of Allah are inscrutable. You can never be certain you heard Allah right. Sometimes you're sure you heard Allah right, you do what you thought he told you to do, but things don't work out at all the way you expected.

Sometimes it almost seems like Allah doesn't exist...but perish the thought!

BTW, what peaceful, blameless countries was the U.S. attacking or occupying at the time? I forget. Surely you have all that written down in your "Litany Of U.S. Crimes" ledger.

btw, anyone who believed obama was any different from any of the last presidents from the last 50-60 years was either mystified or asleep.

You shouldn't talk that way about your fellow commies. Many commies thunk Obama wuz a commie. Because he talked about redistributing wealth.

Of course he is closer to toony than anything resembling the "left"...

And I'm damn proud of it. People who think like me get to be president, while people like you sit up there in the boonies freezing your ass off and bitching irrelevantly.

[Toontown]

Sigh.......... I'll give it one last go....

Yada, yada, yada, yada....

<snip>

....

Did I say that the US fucked Africa up?

Not exactly. Sandinista desperately attempted to re-frame the debate by attempting to insert that bogus premise, and I cut off the bogus premise by bringing up the aid and the millions of African lives saved by Bush's AIDS initiative.

Then you, for some as-yet-unexplained reason, felt compelled to attempt to cut off my cut-off.

This is not discussion. It's the usual finger-pointing, somebody-done-somebody-wrong song, and I can hear those all day long on the juke box at a cunt-western bar. Which is precisely why I do not hang out in cunt-western bars.

That's a different issue and Europe can be drawn into that... I was merely stating that the aid and its use is overstated, for which you can find plenty of facts to back up in the link I gave you, and on that site in general... and elsewhere, I should think...

Yada, yada, yada, yada....

<snip>

Oh, I see... so you were only calling me a devious liar? As it happens I did not recognise that... I wasn't having a go at defending his original claim, I was stating that the point you raised in your objection to his claim wasn't as rosy as all that, which is true.

I didn't say U.S. aid to Africa was "rosy". My goal was simply to cut off Sandinista's attempted premise insertion to the effect that the U.S. fucked up Africa.

So why did you feel compelled to state that U.S. support of Africa is not as rosy as all that? Rosy as all what? Did you simply feel like leading off in some random direction? Or were you in fact attempting to support Sandinista's original claim?

[sandinista]

Toontown

My goal was simply to cut off Sandinista's attempted premise insertion to the effect that the U.S. fucked up Africa.

FAIL

[Trolldor]

9/11 was a wake-up call for the US to stop being an imperial power and militarist war monger...someone must have hit snooze.

btw, anyone who believed obama was any different from any of the last presidents from the last 50-60 years was either mystified or asleep. Of course he is closer to toony than anything resembling the "left", he is nothing but a figurehead for corporate power.

I have never seen a more disgusting comment in my life.
The US was targeted by Islam because it represents everything they loathe - free speech, freedom of religion, equality under law. Women can choose how to dress, choose who to date, who to sleep with, whether or not to have a job and what jobs to look for. In America, your right to question, your right to challenge isn't just asserted it is mandated by the US constitution.

It is is easy to dismiss reality to fit your tiny world view, but tell me why were Muslims the ones hijacking the plane?

[Eriku]

So why did you feel compelled to state that U.S. support of Africa is not as rosy as all that? Rosy as all what? Did you simply feel like leading off in some random direction? Or were you in fact attempting to support Sandinista's original claim?

I felt compelled to do that because you invoked US Aid as a great help to Africa, when it's not even all that helpful. The link also brings up the protectionism that is in place and which undermines all these efforts, and how a lot of it is just credit which means the money goes back to US Corporations. But I guess that's the same as me stating that "in the beginning, the US fucked up Africa, and Bush saw that it was good".

You're grasping at straws if you're accusing me of cutting you off when you invoke aid as a good thing and I merely point to, as well as substantiate that it is very much a double-edged sword.

Rosy as all what? "...as all that" is a turn of phrase.

Well, it's been fun, but I can tell that this is a stalemate and that I'm only to get grief for trying to put forward my views to you.

[sandinista]

9/11 was a wake-up call for the US to stop being an imperial power and militarist war monger...someone must have hit snooze.

btw, anyone who believed obama was any different from any of the last presidents from the last 50-60 years was either mystified or asleep. Of course he is closer to toony than anything resembling the "left", he is nothing but a figurehead for corporate power.

I have never seen a more disgusting comment in my life.
The US was targeted by Islam because it represents everything they loathe - free speech, freedom of religion, equality under law. Women can choose how to dress, choose who to date, who to sleep with, whether or not to have a job and what jobs to look for. In America, your right to question, your right to challenge isn't just asserted it is mandated by the US constitution.

It is is easy to dismiss reality to fit your tiny world view, but tell me why were Muslims the ones hijacking the plane?

Which part? Most disgusting EVER! On an internet forum? Holy shit man. Over 10,000 posts on this forum alone!

Ok, I'm over that. If what your saying is true, which is "They hate us for our freedom", I'm done with you. Seems odd from some other posts you've made, but whatever. No one could ever convince me that the US was attacked simply because they had so much "freedom".

[Toontown]

Ok, I'm over that. If what your saying is true, which is "They hate us for our freedom", I'm done with you. Seems odd from some other posts you've made, but whatever. No one could ever convince me that the US was attacked simply because they had so much "freedom".

OK, get ready to concentrate really, really hard. Because this is going to be really, really complicated.

When Bush said, "They hate us for our freedom", that was a metaphor for "They hate us because we're infidels". Because infidels have liberty and freedom of speech and religion and shit. Get it? (freedom = infidels)

Bush chose not to say "They hate us because we're infidels." Because, unlike the average Joe Sixpack, presidents don't have freedom of speech. Presidents have to be careful what they say, lest they outrage large numbers of politically correct ass-squinchers (Oops. Too late. Been there, done that.). And saying "They hate us because we're infidels" could possibly be construed as crude and provocative, don't you see.

But they do hate us because we're infidels, you know. They're always calling us infidels and threatening to do really bad things to us before completely taking over the world over our dead or converted bodies. But Bush couldn't actually say that, you understand. Because Bush was trying to suck up to the moderate muslims, don't you see.

There are many here among us who are only waiting for the next excuse to become outraged.

And there are many here among us who feel that monkeys are but a joke, as Hendrix rhymed. Except Hendrix said "life" instead of "monkeys". Obviously a metaphor. "Life" is what the monkeys choose to make it. Life is as monkey does.

Well, I hope that helped clear you up on Bush's cunning use of metaphors.

[RuleBritannia]

George Bush does metaphors?

[Toontown]

So why did you feel compelled to state that U.S. support of Africa is not as rosy as all that? Rosy as all what? Did you simply feel like leading off in some random direction? Or were you in fact attempting to support Sandinista's original claim?

I felt compelled to do that because you invoked US Aid as a great help to Africa, when it's not even all that helpful.

How do you know it's not all that helpful? Saving millions of lives is not helpful?

Well, if you really want to get technical about it, you're right. Every life saved just adds to the population bomb. Which, in the long run, is going to be anything but helpful.

The link also brings up the protectionism that is in place and which undermines all these efforts, and how a lot of it is just credit which means the money goes back to US Corporations."

The Africans don't get what they bought with the credits? Don't lie to me, boy. Don't even spin.

If they were paid in cash, the despots would simply stuff the cash in Swiss bank accounts.

I am sure you would prefer that the goods were purchased from skinflint foreigners, so they could benefit from it instead of the Americans. But unfortunately, you don't always get exactly what your wisened little heart desires. Tough, ain't it.

But I guess that's the same as me stating that "in the beginning, the US fucked up Africa, and Bush saw that it was good".

Actually, it is the same as you supporting Sandinista's Amerika-bashing any way you could, and clouding the issue any way you could when Sandinista falsely claimed the U.S. fucked up Africa.

You're grasping at straws if you're accusing me of cutting you off when you invoke aid as a good thing and I merely point to, as well as substantiate that it is very much a double-edged sword.

No, it's more like, when you saw me reaching for Sandinista's chips that he had bet on a non-sequitur and a false dichotomy, you pulled out a meat cleaver and tried to chop my hand off. Because you just couldn't stand it.

But the meat cleaver was made of rubber.

Well, it's been fun, but I can tell that this is a stalemate and that I'm only to get grief for trying to put forward my views to you.

Well, you did the best you could to cloud the issue (pat pat). You seized that Africa bone and hung on to it for a long time. That old bone has your determined teeth marks all over it. You should be very...well, I hesitate to say "proud of youself", because I frankly can't imagine what you might have accomplished, other than a show of finger-pointing stubbornness.

You know, if you wanted to harangue the U.S. for not giving enough aid to Africa, you could have started a thread about it. You didn't need to lurk about, waiting for someone to mention the subject before leaping in to seize the long-awaited opportunity. Just start a freaking thread about it. Then you can bitch all day long.

And you know, there is nothing stopping you from donating whatever percentage of your income you think is fair. That's how Americans do it. They don't wait for the government to tax it out of them. They pony up voluntarily.

Charity begins and ends with you, dude. You won't succeed in badgering others into giving it up.

[Toontown]

George Bush does metaphors?

No need to gurgle yourself. Just don't worry your literal little head about it.

[mistermack]

I can hardly believe the hypocrisy of Bush. Those arabs steered the plane that THEY WERE ON straight into a building and smashed themselve into pulp, because they don't like america's freedom? Jaysus!

I personally was expecting some big terrorist attempt at the time. You could virtually smell it coming. George W had just got elected, and announced to the world the he "wasn't going to get involved" in the Israel/Palestinian problem, he was going to let them "sort it out" themselves. That was like saying you will let the pack of hyenas sort it out with the sheep. It was basically saying the Palestinians would just have to take what's coming to them.

Bill Clinton, to be fair to him, was an incredible con-man. He did convince the Arab world of the fiction that something might be done for the Palestinians, he managed a real balancing act. None of it was true, but he did keep it from exploding. Then along comes the dumbest ever man to hit the whitehouse, and he just didn't have the brains to keep stringing them along. Something had to happen, and sure enough it did.

Of course the hate for the US isn't just single issue stuff, but that's what broke the dam.

I'll never forget Bush on the TV, calling them cowards!! People who just flew their own plane into a skyscraper!!
And this is the same man who completely dodged fighting when he was young, thanks to his rich daddy!
There should be a Nobel Prize for Hypocrisy.
.

[Toontown]

I can hardly believe the hypocrisy of Bush. Those arabs steered the plane that THEY WERE ON straight into a building and smashed themselve into pulp, because they don't like america's freedom? Jaysus!

Oh, so it's back to "freedom" again? More convenient for bashing purposes, I suppose.

Know what the really funny part is? Your heros' analytical minds probably awoke from their lifelong slumber just as the tower loomed before them. At the last moment, they began to doubt. And they looked into the Void, and pissed their panties.

I personally was expecting some big terrorist attempt at the time. You could virtually smell it coming. George W had just got elected, and announced to the world the he "wasn't going to get involved" in the Israel/Palestinian problem, he was going to let them "sort it out" themselves. That was like saying you will let the pack of hyenas sort it out with the sheep. It was basically saying the Palestinians would just have to take what's coming to them.

Yeah, right. The whole stinking monkeyworld revolves around the freaking Palestinians.

And the pitiful part is, you might be partly correct. Which would be extremely sick. But no sicker than Nazism, or Stalinism, or Maoism. So perhaps a monkeyworld revolving around a couple of million Palestinians, while extremely sick, might not be that far-fetched.

Bill Clinton, to be fair to him, was an incredible con-man. He did convince the Arab world of the fiction that something might be done for the Palestinians, he managed a real balancing act. None of it was true, but he did keep it from exploding.

OK, so Clinton did Bo Diddly squat for the center of the universe...er, I mean the All-Holy Palestinians. But kept talking about how he was trying very hard to fulfill his only purpose in life - that being to help the Palestinians.

Then along comes the dumbest ever man to hit the whitehouse, and he just didn't have the brains to keep stringing them along. Something had to happen, and sure enough it did.

So, it would have been better to keep stringing them along?

Interesting. The more honest of the two presidents is the one that pissed them off.

Typical. The monkey-mindset is, "Give lip service to helping the All-Holy Palestinians - or else!"

Of course the hate for the US isn't just single issue stuff, but that's what broke the dam.

Izzatafact. So it has nothing at all to do with them hating infidels?

So why all the smack talk about the infidels, and how they're going to do a job on the infidels in due course?

I'll never forget Bush on the TV, calling them cowards!! People who just flew their own plane into a skyscraper!!

False courage. They really believed they were going up to the Spirit In The Sky, to be rewarded with mansions full of virgins.

Take away that false crutch, and they become quivering masses of jelly the first time they look into the Void. Why do you think they dreamed up such a ridiculous crutch to begin with?

I'll tell you why. It is because, a long time ago, one of them stared into the vacuum of his eyes and stammered, "Do...do...do you want to make a d..d..deal?"

Unfortunately, the phony "deal" Mo's terrified subconscious dreamed up is null and "void". Why would the Void build millions of mansions for dead monkeys? The Void does not barter with monkeys. The Void couldn't care less which monkeys the dead monkeys killed.

It is to laugh.

And this is the same man who completely dodged fighting when he was young, thanks to his rich daddy!

And what did you do in the big war, daddy?

There should be a Nobel Prize for Hypocrisy.

[/quote]

There is. And you just won it.

[mistermack]

Goodness me! And I thought there could be only one George Bush!!

[RuleBritannia]

Goodness me! And I thought there could be only one George Bush!!

You only just meeting Toontown are you? I've known him since RDF's glory days, some comedy gold on there.