Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's?

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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Toontown » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:26 pm

sandinista wrote:
Toontown wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Toontown wrote:Spacefaring nomads gotta eat, you know.
How do you know this?
I know it as a probability. If you can't "know' things as probabilities, you can't know shit.

Is it absolutely necessary to absolutely "know" something, or else remain silent on the subject? If that is the case, then you can have nothing to say about the possibility of the sun rising in the east tomorrow.
:lol: first time I've agreed with you TT. :td:
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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:35 pm

Toontown wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Toontown wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Toontown wrote:Spacefaring nomads gotta eat, you know.
How do you know this?
I know it as a probability. If you can't "know' things as probabilities, you can't know shit.

Is it absolutely necessary to absolutely "know" something, or else remain silent on the subject? If that is the case, then you can have nothing to say about the possibility of the sun rising in the east tomorrow.
So, a race that has conquered the galaxy is into snacking on aliens? Are you getting this from AM Coast-to-Coast?
Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware this thread had suddenly become a serious discussion.

But if you want to get serious pseudo serious - what do we snack on? Technologically inferior creatures that can't fight back?

But spacefaring nomadic bugs would never do that because _________________(fill in the blank)

The probability of creatures snacking on other creatures is, I'm afraid, well established by direct observation.
Just wonderin', that's all. I think the chances of us being edible would be vanishingly small. Not that we couldn't be eaten, just that it would do anything for the eater.

I would also be surprised if they killed us. I think they'd be interested, but not hostile.
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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Toontown » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:21 pm

Well, I consider it almost necessary that intersteller travellers would be nomadic. Given the vast interstellar distances and the seemingly settled relativistic physics, it wouldn't be feasible for interstellar travellers to sally forth from a home planet and then return. They simply never would get anywhere that way. A couple of hundred years one way, maybe they get to check out one planetary system. Then it's a couple of hundred years back. Doesn't seem feasible, economical, or otherwise useful.

So I think interstellar travellers would be totally nomadic, almost of necessity, never returning to a home planet. Their home would be their armada of interstellar ships. Thus, they would necessarily be interstellar hunter-gatherers. I'm not saying they would necessarily covet the resources of a pretty blue planet covered with vulnerable monkeys. I'm just saying it's a probability. Not necessarily a high probability. But any non-zero probability happens, given enough time.

And that non-zero probability has probably been long since recognized by intelligent planetary-based races all over the multiverse, if not by us. Suffice it to say it might well be unwise to physically approach and attempt to make contact with a techologically advanced race. Why would they trust you? How would you communicate your harmless intentions to them, and even if you could communicate a rudimentary peaceful message, why should they take the risk of believing you, no matter how big and misty your eyes look?

I would estimate a seriously non-zero probability that the aliens' major concern would be how to most quickly vaporize you, not unlike our response to an untrustworthy bug that has invaded our home.

Or, if they felt like taking a chance, they might demand your unconditional surrender, pending determination of the threat you pose.

I'm thinking experienced nomadic spacefarers would tend strongly to avoid planetary systems occupied by detectably advanced creatures who might shoot horrific weapons first and ask questions later. Which would suggest, in turn, that the hypothetical visitations of our planet would, if verified, only prove the aliens utter contempt for our self-defense capabilities. Their armada could be cruising comforably at the edge of the asteroid belt, completely undetected, posing as a cluster of asteroids.

But I think it is far more likely that the UFO sightings are just a craze, not unlike the ubiquitous Elvis or poltergeist sightings. Not because I don't think they're out there somewhere, but because I find a UFO craze far more likely than our having actually been stumbled onto amid the unimaginable vastness, and found sufficiently inferior to move the aliens to cruise about our airspace ostentatiously in their big conveniently glowing or shining ships.

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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:30 pm

I don't think it will be an all-or-nothing thing. Some of the "people" will stay on the home world, some will leave. Of those who leave, some will return, some won't. If we posit a transportation system that makes an intra-galactic trip to any point equivalent to a trans-Atlantic voyage of say, 1650, then we can consider the similar patterns of travelers, home bodies, ex-patriots, and "shuttlers", merchants and military and such.
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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Toontown » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:41 am

Gawdzilla wrote:I don't think it will be an all-or-nothing thing. Some of the "people" will stay on the home world, some will leave. Of those who leave, some will return, some won't. If we posit a transportation system that makes an intra-galactic trip to any point equivalent to a trans-Atlantic voyage of say, 1650, then we can consider the similar patterns of travelers, home bodies, ex-patriots, and "shuttlers", merchants and military and such.
That equivalency would require superluminal velocity, prohibited by known physical theory and experimental results.

That's why I say known physics almost compels interstellar travellers to be nomadic. Unless they are nearly immortal, they won't live long enough to return to a home planet from an interstellar voyage. And it's hard for me to imagine the economy of hauling materials and goods across interstellar space at subluminal speed, so it's hard for me to imagine how their travels could be mercantile in nature. Seems to me their travels would far more likely be migratory or nomadic in nature.

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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:48 am

Toontown wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:I don't think it will be an all-or-nothing thing. Some of the "people" will stay on the home world, some will leave. Of those who leave, some will return, some won't. If we posit a transportation system that makes an intra-galactic trip to any point equivalent to a trans-Atlantic voyage of say, 1650, then we can consider the similar patterns of travelers, home bodies, ex-patriots, and "shuttlers", merchants and military and such.
That equivalency would require superluminal velocity, prohibited by known physical theory and experimental results.
We don't know how to travel faster than light. So it would seem that traveling faster than the speed of light would be done by some unknown method. We are only a few hundred years into a scientific world.
That's why I say known physics almost compels interstellar travellers to be nomadic. Unless they are nearly immortal, they won't live long enough to return to a home planet from an interstellar voyage. And it's hard for me to imagine the economy of hauling materials and goods across interstellar space at subluminal speed, so it's hard for me to imagine how their travels could be mercantile in nature. Seems to me their travels would far more likely be migratory or nomadic in nature.
I do see colony ships as being a means of traveling between the stars. The Ballad of Beta 3 comes immediately to mind.
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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:59 am

Toontown wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Toontown wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Toontown wrote:Spacefaring nomads gotta eat, you know.
How do you know this?
I know it as a probability. If you can't "know' things as probabilities, you can't know shit.

Is it absolutely necessary to absolutely "know" something, or else remain silent on the subject? If that is the case, then you can have nothing to say about the possibility of the sun rising in the east tomorrow.
So, a race that has conquered the galaxy is into snacking on aliens? Are you getting this from AM Coast-to-Coast?
Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware this thread had suddenly become a serious discussion.

But if you want to get seriously pseudo serious - what do we snack on? Technologically inferior creatures that can't fight back?

But spacefaring nomadic bugs would never do that because _________________(fill in the blank)

The probability of creatures snacking on other creatures is, I'm afraid, well established by direct observation.
Except for the fact that it is highly probable that incompatible biochemistry would make us poisonous to them, or at the very least non-nutritive...
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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Toontown » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:48 am

Or so you would like to believe... :I-love-pork:

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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:59 am

Toontown wrote:Or so you would like to believe... :I-love-pork:
Oh, they may well have other reasons for turning us into ash, it's simply the food or sex are unlikely to be amongst them...
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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by sandinista » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:23 am

JimC wrote:
Toontown wrote:Or so you would like to believe... :I-love-pork:
Oh, they may well have other reasons for turning us into ash, it's simply the food or sex are unlikely to be amongst them...
other reasons, like...spreading freedom and democracy perhaps?
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.

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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Toontown » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:26 am

sandinista wrote:
JimC wrote:
Toontown wrote:Or so you would like to believe... :I-love-pork:
Oh, they may well have other reasons for turning us into ash, it's simply the food or sex are unlikely to be amongst them...
other reasons, like...spreading freedom and democracy perhaps?
No. Spreading communism will be the object of the mass anihilation, just as it has been in the past.

Don't make me analyze the war death list again.

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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by sandinista » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:28 am

Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's? Because the aliens will spread communism. :lol:
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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:42 am

sandinista wrote:Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's? Because the aliens will spread communism. :lol:
They may have a hive mind, and so be constitutionally suited to communism.

Unlike humans...
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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Robert_S » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:44 am

Nah, the US will just end up pushing it's crap popular culture on an interstellar scale
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Why do people think there would be mass panic over UFO's

Post by Toontown » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:07 am

JimC wrote:
Toontown wrote:Or so you would like to believe... :I-love-pork:
Oh, they may well have other reasons for turning us into ash, it's simply the food or sex are unlikely to be amongst them...

Here on earth, it is always ultimately about sex and food. Always. Survival itself is ultimately about eating and, ultimately, copulating. Sex is nature's way of tricking us into producing offspring. All activities are essentially in pursuit of nature's evolved purposes, directly or indirectly, even if it isn't superficially obvious.

Why assume aliens are automatically radically different biochemically, just because they originated on another planet? It may well be that earthlike planets are the only ones that produce complex life, due to physical and biochemical constraints.

It is not unlikely that the aliens we might encounter will be amino acid based, for the simple reason that amino acids are ubiquitous and ideal as building blocks, capable of forming an endless number of flexible shapes and bonds. And if the aliens are amino acid based, it would not be at all surprising to find them DNA based as well. Amino acids and DNA go together like love and marriage.

Bottom line: the probability of you being a potentially tasty morsel to an alien is uncomfortably high. :I-love-pork:

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