So I bumped into these two Jehovah's witnesses

[Berthold]

Did they ever send females round?

No !

But the JWs sometimes do, at least here. Some of them are even under 50.

[amused]

The doorbell rang the other day. We have two doors with a button each and I can never remember which chime pattern is for which door. By the time I got a shirt on and answered the wrong door, the little yappy dogs had chased them back to their (very nice black) truck. I decided to just let it go since it was obviously meant to be.

[Thinking Aloud]

I once had a visit from the JWs the morning after dreaming about a visit from the JWs. I was so taken aback that I let them talk for half-an-hour.

[PsychoSerenity]

just because I want to see them all together.

[hiyymer]

Helping my daughter move furniture the other day and a couple of mormons cycling past stopped and offered assistance. My cynical, annoyed response: Fuck off, ingratiating sleazebags. My daughter's response was a sincere, but firm: That's very nice of you, but we'll be fine thank you.

I liked her reply better.

I was talking with a friend recently about the difference between my formative experience with theists (indoctrinated dogmatic) and how that is reflected in my responses, and my childrens' experience (relaxed liberal, non theistic) and their responses ... and this situation bore it out.

Ahhh always learning.

I read "the origins of virtue" by Matt Ridley. He devoted a whole chapter to certain polynesian societies where you give as much as you can, because people are then beholden to you and it gives you power. It's like competitive giving. You make more money so you can give more. Just a normal human interaction taken to a cultural extreme. I think we all sense that there is a control factor in unsolicited offers of assistance. Do you think that's what sets you off?

[charlou]

Helping my daughter move furniture the other day and a couple of mormons cycling past stopped and offered assistance. My cynical, annoyed response: Fuck off, ingratiating sleazebags. My daughter's response was a sincere, but firm: That's very nice of you, but we'll be fine thank you.

I liked her reply better.

I was talking with a friend recently about the difference between my formative experience with theists (indoctrinated dogmatic) and how that is reflected in my responses, and my childrens' experience (relaxed liberal, non theistic) and their responses ... and this situation bore it out.

Ahhh always learning.

I read "the origins of virtue" by Matt Ridley. He devoted a whole chapter to certain polynesian societies where you give as much as you can, because people are then beholden to you and it gives you power. It's like competitive giving. You make more money so you can give more. Just a normal human interaction taken to a cultural extreme. I think we all sense that there is a control factor in unsolicited offers of assistance. Do you think that's what sets you off?

If I think there are strings attached, yes ... any sense I get of someone trying to manipulate me where I don't want to go, I am quick to shut them down. My point in the post you quoted is that I was irritated and rude, while my daughter was polite and firm. Different means to the same end, but hers was both effective and angst free.

[Pappa]

On a slight tangent, but I have a book called "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Hunters and Gatherers". Aside from being an encyclopedia it also contains a series of papers - one of which covers different forms of giving in hunter-gatherer societies. I was amazed to discover the different systems used, some reciprocal, but others completely non-reciprocal. Greed really isn't a universal human characteristic, no matter what some people might believe.

[Jay G]

I have just come back from my evening walk with the dogs. On the way to a field nearby, just down the road there were two young men in black suits - you can spot them a mile away. They were knocking on doors and no doubt taking the regular rejections they were no doubt receiving as service to the Lord.

One of them saw me and with a big smile on his face came up to me and said 'Can I tell you the good news about the gospel'?

I felt reakky angry for some reason - and I thought to myself 'why hold back', so I replied, 'No you can't. I am an atheist and I think what you believe is foolish, silly, irrational and that it has no basis in truth or reality. You should get a life'!

..and walked off. The young man no doubt felt even better knowing the Lord was sending him evil sinners to test him and conform to him that he was indeed in possession of the grace of the Lord.

The twat!

You should have pulled out a pistol and shot him in the face.

PLEASE NOTE: I am VERY VERY drunk right now and am not responsible for what I type.

[Lion IRC]

I have just come back from my evening walk with the dogs. On the way to a field nearby, just down the road there were two young men in black suits - you can spot them a mile away. They were knocking on doors and no doubt taking the regular rejections they were no doubt receiving as service to the Lord.

One of them saw me and with a big smile on his face came up to me and said 'Can I tell you the good news about the gospel'?

I felt reakky angry for some reason - and I thought to myself 'why hold back', so I replied, 'No you can't. I am an atheist and I think what you believe is foolish, silly, irrational and that it has no basis in truth or reality. You should get a life'!

..and walked off. The young man no doubt felt even better knowing the Lord was sending him evil sinners to test him and conform to him that he was indeed in possession of the grace of the Lord.

The twat!

You should have pulled out a pistol and shot him in the face.

PLEASE NOTE: I am VERY VERY drunk right now and am not responsible for what I type.

In Vino Veritas

I realise not everybody has the time to discuss their religious point of view but I'm surprised how few atheists are willing to put up a "rational" "reasonable" response to the Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses et al.

Saying..."I am an atheist...what you believe is foolish, silly, irrational...has no basis in truth or reality...you should get a life." is hardly "striking a blow" for the cause is it?

[Ian]

...is hardly "striking a blow" for the cause is it?[/color]

You're confusing us with what you're trying to do.

[FreeThinker23]

About 4 or 5 times a year I get collared by the mormons, the conversation for my part usually consists of "sorry mate I'm not religious" usually followed by "no seriously, I'm not religious". I get the feeling they're advised not to press the issue too much in these circumstances as they could leave themselves open to accusations of religiously motivated harassment.

My boss said that he was too busy doing the dishes when they came to the door. They then offered to help.

Hmmm...next time I see them come by, I'll have to tell them I'm too busy because I'm about to mow my lawn or wash my car.

[mraltair]

My dad Told two old JW ladies to fuck off (in a bad mood). We haven't had any come around for several years since. A bit harsh I felt.

I like to just giggle and increase it to a laugh and then get a bit manic and close the door. Or just stand staring in silence at them. You can't have more fun on a doorstep than with JWs. I promise you.

[Svartalf]

Helping my daughter move furniture the other day and a couple of mormons cycling past stopped and offered assistance. My cynical, annoyed response: Fuck off, ingratiating sleazebags. My daughter's response was a sincere, but firm: That's very nice of you, but we'll be fine thank you.

I liked her reply better.

I was talking with a friend recently about the difference between my formative experience with theists (indoctrinated dogmatic) and how that is reflected in my responses, and my childrens' experience (relaxed liberal, non theistic) and their responses ... and this situation bore it out.

Ahhh always learning.

I read "the origins of virtue" by Matt Ridley. He devoted a whole chapter to certain polynesian societies where you give as much as you can, because people are then beholden to you and it gives you power. It's like competitive giving. You make more money so you can give more. Just a normal human interaction taken to a cultural extreme. I think we all sense that there is a control factor in unsolicited offers of assistance. Do you think that's what sets you off?

That kind of behavior is actually quite common in pre monetary societies where abundance allows it ... you won't see a potlatch among Inuit, and I've never heard of it among Amazonian Indians, but it was all over North America ... Heck, even in quite Monetary Eurasia, that kind of competitive gifting was prevalent in diplomacy where Embassies were huge caravans laden with the magnificent presents for the foreign sovereign (and the lesser ones destined to lesser officials to grease the wheels or just make a demonstration of generosity), and were seldom smaller on the way back. There's a reason why a very common type of kenning in Skaldic poetry to designate a lord or king boils down to "spreader of gold/gifts"

[Svartalf]

On a slight tangent, but I have a book called "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Hunters and Gatherers". Aside from being an encyclopedia it also contains a series of papers - one of which covers different forms of giving in hunter-gatherer societies. I was amazed to discover the different systems used, some reciprocal, but others completely non-reciprocal. Greed really isn't a universal human characteristic, no matter what some people might believe.

careful about the "non reciprocal" bit.

While some systems don't expect countergifts, what's expected is prestige and its corollary, influence.

[JimC]

On a slight tangent, but I have a book called "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Hunters and Gatherers". Aside from being an encyclopedia it also contains a series of papers - one of which covers different forms of giving in hunter-gatherer societies. I was amazed to discover the different systems used, some reciprocal, but others completely non-reciprocal. Greed really isn't a universal human characteristic, no matter what some people might believe.

careful about the "non reciprocal" bit.

While some systems don't expect countergifts, what's expected is prestige and its corollary, influence.

An idea that folk lore, even biblical folk lore is well aware of. I've forgotten where, but somewhere in the bible is a parable exhorting givers of charity to conceal their giving. The idea, of course, is that this makes the action much more worthy, as one is foregoing any benefit to one's prestige and reputation that may accrue by the community seeing your giving...

Not an idea popular with most of today's billionaire philanthopists...