Does Capitalism need a tweak?

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Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by mistermack » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:05 pm

Does Capitalism need a tweak?

It's been working well now for many years. In the sense that it matches human nature better than communism, and no other workable economic system has arisen.
But is it perfect now, or can it be improved?

The big problem I see with the world is inequality. Not inequality of assets, but of opportunity. My ideal world would be where everyone got an equal start, and then kept as much as possible of what they could amass.

Obviously that's not going to happen, no turkey would vote for christmas.
But it would be nice if access to OPPORTUNITY could gradually become more even.
The trouble is, the opportunity gap is getting wider all the time, and the reason is unfettered capitalism

It used to be that a govornment could employ policies that would gradually even out the gap between rich and poor. They could do it by taxation, of high earners, and of large estates when the person died.
What has changed is the mobility of people and their wealth. Govornments now know that if they taxed the rich as they would like, they can just 'up sticks' and move themselves and their capital to a country that gives a better deal. So what is happening is that the rich are getting richer, and the poor are staying poor. This isn't because of lack of effort or talent, just lack of money. Money makes money, more today than ever before.

So I think it's time that the big economies of the world stopped being slaves to the super rich, and got together to make them pay their way more. It's the only way that opportunity can become more even.
There is only so much capital in the world. If more and more of it gets concentrated into fewer and fewer hands, inequality will reach explosive levels.

My own favourite solution is higher taxes on estates when people die, rather than taxing people more while they are alive. But without the govornments of the world getting together to stop the super rich calling the tune, inequality can only grow and grow.
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:06 pm

You can't "adjust" something that is based on chaos. Just grab the ears, hang on, and enjoy the ride while you can.
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by MarkS » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:20 pm

Trouble is, the rich make the law.
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:25 pm

MarkS wrote:Trouble is, the rich make the law.
"The law, in its dignity, forbids the rich as well as the poor to beg, steal food and sleep under bridges."
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by mistermack » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:27 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:You can't "adjust" something that is based on chaos. Just grab the ears, hang on, and enjoy the ride while you can.
Well, if something has you by the ears, and is 'riding' you, it's time to do something about it.
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:38 pm

mistermack wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:You can't "adjust" something that is based on chaos. Just grab the ears, hang on, and enjoy the ride while you can.
Well, if something has you by the ears, and is 'riding' you, it's time to do something about it.
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by Rum » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:09 pm

It is worth differentiating between a market economy and capitalism. One might say that capitalism is where more and more of the market is owned by fewer and fewer people, who in turn have more and more control over it.

But it is hard to control and tinker with, though governments do try through 'regulators' etc.

I remember shortly after the collapse of the USSR reading the story of how a technocrat came over to London from Moscow to see how the bakery system worked, so as to take some expertise back with him on how the 'market' delivered.

The first question he asked his guide was 'How many bakeries do you know you need to build'?

The difference between a command economy and a free market in a nutshell I thought.

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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by mistermack » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:27 pm

Yeh, I'm not advocating wholesale change though, just sorting out one very real problem of getting tax off the super rich. It's getting to the stage where govornments are prostituting their countries to attract the mega blocks of capital.
They leave in little loopholes, and dodges that the mega rich can exploit, to tempt them to come, or not to leave.
That's why some countries are now at the point where the middle earners and the poor pay far more tax than the super rich.
The only way it could change is if the biggest economies co-operate to even it out among themselves, and to penalise capital that operates from tax havens.

I can't see it happening, because getting countries to work together is like herding cats. But the situation is getting worse all the time. Even here in Britain, with a left-leaning govornment, the gap has got wider over the last ten years, and the super-rich are paying less tax. That shows what little power an individual govornment actually has.
And what has the new govornment done? Raised VAT, a tax that bears much harder on the poor than on the rich.
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:42 am

mistermack wrote:...It's been working well now for many years. In the sense that it matches human nature better than communism...
Just curious, but why is capitalism "matching human nature" seen as an argument for keeping capitalism, rather than an argument for changing human nature. :dono:
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by FBM » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:55 am

mistermack wrote:Does Capitalism need a tweak?

It's been working well now for many years...
This is where you lost me.
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by Robert_S » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:06 am

There is no pure capitalist system. I would prefer some more socialism than the US currently has though. I wouldn't mind more publicly run utilities and energy companies.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by Cunt » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:04 am

Anyone ever seen "Money As Debt"?

I found it quite convincing, and reeking of bullshit. I haven't much knowledge of finance....
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by Trolldor » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:24 am

Robert_S wrote:There is no pure capitalist system. I would prefer some more socialism than the US currently has though. I wouldn't mind more publicly run utilities and energy companies.
Aye, this.
Most importantly, things like Healthcare and Welfare.
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by Robert_S » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:32 am

The Mad Hatter wrote:
Robert_S wrote:There is no pure capitalist system. I would prefer some more socialism than the US currently has though. I wouldn't mind more publicly run utilities and energy companies.
Aye, this.
Most importantly, things like Healthcare and Welfare.
Healthcare yes. Welfare... in some circumstances IF it's implemented right. But the politics of that are about impossible.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Does Capitalism need a tweak?

Post by mistermack » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:54 am

Horwood Beer-Master wrote: Just curious, but why is capitalism "matching human nature" seen as an argument for keeping capitalism, rather than an argument for changing human nature. :dono:
I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere, but I can't quite make it out.
So in case you're serious, how do you propose doing that? Gene manipulation?
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