Begging the Question

[Xamonas Chegwé]

There are two forms to this. The one I use is "This just begs for the following question to be asked."

That's the most popular interpretation, and used to get people all hot and bothered on RDF!

Some guys over at JREF went ballistic when I used it that way. Carpet-chewing was rampant. I assumed a FOAD posture at that point.

That is fast becoming the most common usage of the phrase "begging the question" - it bears no resemblance to its original meaning, although it actually makes more sense in some ways!

The original usage was as a translation (which may have been more accurate when it was initially made than it seems today) of the Latin phrase petitio principii, literally, "assuming the initial point". In practice, this is what we more commonly refer to as a circular argument today - an argument in which the initial premise is supported only by its own consequences - The babble is true because it says so in the babble and the babble is true!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Now please, can I haz the question?

[darren]

Thanks, MrFungus.

It looks like the difference is one of definition versus induction.

P1: All dogs are mammals.
P2: Lassie is a dog.
C: Therefore, Lassie is a mammal.

P1: All swans have two wings.
P2: Delilah is a Swan.
C: Therefore, Delilah has two wings.


In the first, dog example, P1 is based on the definition of a dog, which requires it to be a mammal
In the second, swan example, P1 is based on observation and induction ("all swans that I have seen so far have two wings, therefore they all do").

and the first argument is sound, while the second is circular?

Would you agree?

[MrFungus420]

Thanks, MrFungus.

It looks like the difference is one of definition versus induction.

P1: All dogs are mammals.
P2: Lassie is a dog.
C: Therefore, Lassie is a mammal.

P1: All swans have two wings.
P2: Delilah is a Swan.
C: Therefore, Delilah has two wings.


In the first, dog example, P1 is based on the definition of a dog, which requires it to be a mammal
In the second, swan example, P1 is based on observation and induction ("all swans that I have seen so far have two wings, therefore they all do").

and the first argument is sound, while the second is circular?

Would you agree?

No.

They are both the same. Part of the definition, in each case, is stated in P1.

Let's try this.

There is a stick on the ground. If someone asks, "Who put that stick there", that is begging the question because it is assuming that a person put it there. It is eliminating all possible answers that are not a "who".

[Cunt]

There is a stick on the ground. If someone asks, "Who put that stick there", that is begging the question because it is assuming that a person put it there. It is eliminating all possible answers that are not a "who".

Clear and tight, MrFungus420.

Who told you the answer?

[A Monkey Shaved]

Reminds me of the black swan theory
It was once a generally accepted premise that all swans were white until the discovery on the black swan in Australia

[Coito ergo sum]

Is this an example of begging the question? Why or Why not?

All items in group X have Property Y
A is in group X
A has property Y


Thanks.

No. Begging the question is when you make a statement that seeks to prove X, but already assumes the truth of X. It's like saying the the universe has a beginning. Every thing that has a beginning has a cause. Therefore, the universe has a cause called God. That begs the question. Whether there was a cause is the question. Or, murder is morally wrong, therefore abortion is morally wrong. It begs the question that abortion is murder.

Begging the question is assuming as true that which is in dispute or the subject of the argument.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Is this an example of begging the question? Why or Why not?

All items in group X have Property Y
A is in group X
A has property Y


Thanks.

No. Begging the question is when you make a statement that seeks to prove X, but already assumes the truth of X. It's like saying the the universe has a beginning. Every thing that has a beginning has a cause. Therefore, the universe has a cause called God. That begs the question. Whether there was a cause is the question. Or, murder is morally wrong, therefore abortion is morally wrong. It begs the question that abortion is murder.

Begging the question is assuming as true that which is in dispute or the subject of the argument.

So "begging the question" could be stated "Cheating the question"? In other words, you robbed the question by using the answer as prior proof of the question?

[Coito ergo sum]

There are two forms to this. The one I use is "This just begs for the following question to be asked."

That's the most popular interpretation, and used to get people all hot and bothered on RDF!

Yeah, but it's really not correct. The word "beg" in "beg the question" is used in the sense of "avoid," not "plead for or ask for."

Begging the question is a "fallacy of avoidance." It means you're avoiding the issue by assuming the truth of a proposition that is at issue.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

There are two forms to this. The one I use is "This just begs for the following question to be asked."

That's the most popular interpretation, and used to get people all hot and bothered on RDF!

Yeah, but it's really not correct. The word "beg" in "beg the question" is used in the sense of "avoid," not "plead for or ask for."

That's certain ONE WAY of looking at it.

[Coito ergo sum]

Is this an example of begging the question? Why or Why not?

All items in group X have Property Y
A is in group X
A has property Y


Thanks.

No. Begging the question is when you make a statement that seeks to prove X, but already assumes the truth of X. It's like saying the the universe has a beginning. Every thing that has a beginning has a cause. Therefore, the universe has a cause called God. That begs the question. Whether there was a cause is the question. Or, murder is morally wrong, therefore abortion is morally wrong. It begs the question that abortion is murder.

Begging the question is assuming as true that which is in dispute or the subject of the argument.

So "begging the question" could be stated "Cheating the question"? In other words, you robbed the question by using the answer as prior proof of the question?

Give that man a prize.

Petitio principii, "assuming the initial point."

Or, if it's done in one sentence, it's called hysteron proteron. I.e. "putting the cart before the horse."

[Coito ergo sum]

There are two forms to this. The one I use is "This just begs for the following question to be asked."

That's the most popular interpretation, and used to get people all hot and bothered on RDF!

Yeah, but it's really not correct. The word "beg" in "beg the question" is used in the sense of "avoid," not "plead for or ask for."

That's certain ONE WAY of looking at it.

Certainly. The right way.

http://begthequestion.info/


http://hubpages.com/hub/Begging-the-Que ... sed-phrase

[darren]

thanks for your responses.

[mistermack]

Is this an example of begging the question? Why or Why not?

All items in group X have Property Y
A is in group X
A has property Y
Thanks.

Of course it's begging the question. Or at least a definite fallacy. The last line should read,
"if all items in group X have property Y, and A is in group X, A has property Y"

"A has property Y" hasn't been proved.
.

[Coito ergo sum]

Is this an example of begging the question? Why or Why not?

All items in group X have Property Y
A is in group X
A has property Y
Thanks.

Of course it's begging the question. Or at least a definite fallacy. The last line should read,
"if all items in group X have property Y, and A is in group X, A has property Y"

"A has property Y" hasn't been proved.
.

?

The first line is the premise - all items in group X have property Y.

The second line says that A is in group X

Thus, A has property Y.

It's not begging the question, it's a classic syllogism.

Major premise: All men (X) are mortal (Y)
Minor premise: Socrates is a man (X).
Conclusion: Socrates is mortal (Y).

[mistermack]

Depends if you count the first line as the premise, or the first two lines.