GM Produces the Volt!

[Ian]

I don't look down my nose on gas guzzlers (well, maybe just a little bit). My wife drives a minivan. Since we have three kids, it's a necessity.

I look down a little on people with long commutes.

It's not a necessity. Lots of people with three kids don't have minivans or SUVs. It's what you prefer because it makes your life a little easier and you can afford it.

And, how do you justify looking down your nose at someone with a "gas guzzler" when you have one as well? (minivan) Maybe those other people also find their guzzler to be a "necessity?"

My commute cannot be shorter. Period. Hence the Prius.

The minivan isn't exactly a luxury SUV. It's a Hyundai Entourage. Nor does she put a lot of miles on it. If it was just her and three kids she could make do with something smaller (and she used to own a little convertible before the kids came). But the difference between a 4-person family and a 5-person family is huge when purchasing a car, especially when three carseats are involved. When the whole family travels together, we squeeze ourselves and our belongings in there very tightly, thank you. It's not merely about "easier". I'd say that makes it a necessity.

My "looking down my nose" comment goes for people who drive giant cars and yet have little or no practical need for them. My mother-in-law owns a giant Tahoe and has absolutely no need for it; she just likes a big car. Quite a different category from my wife.

[Don't Panic]

What has happened to fuel cell technology? Produce hydrogen from water using electricity from nuclear power stations, fill cars with hydrogen at gas station, drive until need top-up. No batteries, no recharging, almost carbon neutral.

[maiforpeace]

Driving a Prius and eating meat is less green than driving a Hummer and being a vegetarian. It would be even better if people paid attention to their consumption of meat over their consumption of fuel.

[Coito ergo sum]

I don't look down my nose on gas guzzlers (well, maybe just a little bit). My wife drives a minivan. Since we have three kids, it's a necessity.

I look down a little on people with long commutes.

It's not a necessity. Lots of people with three kids don't have minivans or SUVs. It's what you prefer because it makes your life a little easier and you can afford it.

And, how do you justify looking down your nose at someone with a "gas guzzler" when you have one as well? (minivan) Maybe those other people also find their guzzler to be a "necessity?"

My commute cannot be shorter. Period. Hence the Prius.

Says you. But, it certainly "can." You just don't prefer it. You could change jobs to a lower paying (or similar paying) job near your house. You could pay more rent closer to work and get a second job. You choose not to. Many people choose to drive SUVs because under their practical circumstances they feel they are as "necessary" as you feel your long commute is.

The minivan isn't exactly a luxury SUV. It's a Hyundai Entourage.

It's not the luxury that matters, but the gas mileage. Well, that is unless someone's objection to a vehicle is class based and not environmentally based.

Nor does she put a lot of miles on it.

Some Prius driver is looking down on her, smugly, despite her supposed lack of miles.

If it was just her and three kids she could make do with something smaller (and she used to own a little convertible before the kids came). But the difference between a 4-person family and a 5-person family is huge when purchasing a car, especially when three carseats are involved. When the whole family travels together, we squeeze ourselves and our belongings in there very tightly, thank you. It's not merely about "easier". I'd say that makes it a necessity.

I'm with you. I agree it makes things work well, but it's not a "necessity." Plenty of people get by with less.

My "looking down my nose" comment goes for people who drive giant cars and yet have little or no practical need for them.

And, my point is you have no idea what their practical need is, generally speaking. Just seeing a guy driving alone in an SUV doesn't tell you anything about why he has that SUV or what his circumstances are. I've had a similar conversation in the past with some people who "looked down their nose" at me for being unapologetic about my SUV. I have the same kind of rationale for my SUV being a "necessity" as you have for your minivan.

My mother-in-law owns a giant Tahoe and has absolutely no need for it; she just likes a big car. Quite a different category from my wife.

Maybe your mother-in-law puts stuff in the back from time to time that she needs space for. Or, maybe she lives in a climate where some snow driving capability is better. Maybe she doesn't drive much at all, and thereby causes less of an impact on the environment than people who drive smaller cars longer distances?

[drl2]

What has happened to fuel cell technology? Produce hydrogen from water using electricity from nuclear power stations, fill cars with hydrogen at gas station, drive until need top-up. No batteries, no recharging, almost carbon neutral.

No infrastructure for widespread hydrogen distribution, limited interest in vehicles that are equipped with high-pressure gas canisters, and the fact that the water vapor produced by the process is a greenhouse gas...

[Azathoth]

It only need a slight modification to an existing petrol station to make it capable of distributing hydrogen as well. It can even be generated on site removing the need for convoys of trucks delivering it. Having a hydrogen cell on your car is no more dangerous than sitting on a tank of petrol and water vapour in the atmosphere doesn't hang around anywhere near as long as CO2. The technology is out there it just doesnt seem to be profitable enough for the auto manufacturors to implement it widely yet, too much money left in the oil for now. That said all the buses in Reykjavík are hydrogen fuelled now. A step in the right direction.

[Ian]

Driving a Prius and eating meat is less green than driving a Hummer and being a vegetarian. It would be even better if people paid attention to their consumption of meat over their consumption of fuel.

Fair point there: producing meat is much more taxing on the environment than producing starches and vegetables. But unfortunately, that's not going to change too much. Transportation technologies can shift to other sources of fuel, but vegetarians will probably always be a minority. Eating less meat isn't too hard I suppose.
For me, the thought of never having a good burger or steak again... the horror...

[Ian]

My commute cannot be shorter. Period. Hence the Prius.

Says you. But, it certainly "can." You just don't prefer it. You could change jobs to a lower paying (or similar paying) job near your house. You could pay more rent closer to work and get a second job. You choose not to. Many people choose to drive SUVs because under their practical circumstances they feel they are as "necessary" as you feel your long commute is.

Sheesh, are you under the impression I was on your case because you drive an SUV? I'm really not.

I'm not from DC. I got a job here before I found a place to live. Living nearby my job is a shit option: my building is located in a federal compound surrounded by a high-crime slum. The area just outside that isn't much better, and it would be, shall we say, very racially difficult for my family. Other areas about the same distance as my house cost a bloody fortune. I'm a government employee, so I'm not exactly rolling in cash. And shifting jobs isn't much of an option either; even if I remained in the Intelligence Community so I could stay around DC, every single other job is even further from where I live.

Sure, I could leave all that and settle for something local and lower paying. Maybe take a second job to make ends meet. I could also leave everything behind and get an Ozark log cabin in Pigs' Knuckle, Arkansas and live off the land. But I'd rather not. So yes, I have some choice in the matter. My choice is to have a good career and balance the costs of a decent house for my family with decent gas mileage for the commute that it comes with.

[leo-rcc]

Plus, people could do well just to move closer to work. Even if you drive a hummer, if you commute three to five miles to work, the gas consumption is small. The main reason Americans use so much gasoline is that our commutes are really long. I've run into people who have called my SUV an environmentally unfriendly gas-guzzler. Then I did the math with their commute vs my short hop-skip-and-a-jump, and I demonstrated that they were actually using more fuel than me by far.

That is not always possible.desirable in light of the cost no I said possible. There is no way that I could a afford a house in that area, and don't put words in my mouth, I know what I wrote.

We all make choices about what is feasible for us in light of our income.

Indeed, and I live 20 minutes away from my office in Maassluis and that was the worst decision of my life. Had I stayed in Roosendaal which is 45 minutes to an hour away I wouldn't have to make every euro count and I don't even pay for petrol. But it is at the moment the best job available to me.

[Feck]

I think one of the problem with being green is that a lot of ideas and indeed tech is sold as green when they actually aren't .

[Trolldor]

And those that really are green are far more over-priced than they ought to be.

[Meekychuppet]

When I see a person here in an off-road vehicle, if they're not a farmer then it's absurd. The worst ones are the trophy wives on the school run. I've seen women driving when it would be quicker to walk. Lazy bastards.

[nellikin]

Ahh, but Meeky, don't you know that those mums have nothing more in their lives but to compare their SUVs at school with the other mums and feel smug that they drive a BMW? That and spend 2 hours a day at the gym so their hubbies don't end up leaving them for that fresh little admin chick who just started last month...

[Coito ergo sum]

My commute cannot be shorter. Period. Hence the Prius.

Says you. But, it certainly "can." You just don't prefer it. You could change jobs to a lower paying (or similar paying) job near your house. You could pay more rent closer to work and get a second job. You choose not to. Many people choose to drive SUVs because under their practical circumstances they feel they are as "necessary" as you feel your long commute is.

Sheesh, are you under the impression I was on your case because you drive an SUV? I'm really not.

Just making the point. I hear similar "look down my nose" stuff from people about SUVs all the time. It irks me a bit.

I'm not from DC. I got a job here before I found a place to live. Living nearby my job is a shit option: my building is located in a federal compound surrounded by a high-crime slum. The area just outside that isn't much better, and it would be, shall we say, very racially difficult for my family. Other areas about the same distance as my house cost a bloody fortune. I'm a government employee, so I'm not exactly rolling in cash.

Actually, federal government employees now make more on average than private sector employees.

And shifting jobs isn't much of an option either; even if I remained in the Intelligence Community so I could stay around DC, every single other job is even further from where I live.

Sure, I could leave all that and settle for something local and lower paying. Maybe take a second job to make ends meet. I could also leave everything behind and get an Ozark log cabin in Pigs' Knuckle, Arkansas and live off the land. But I'd rather not. So yes, I have some choice in the matter. My choice is to have a good career and balance the costs of a decent house for my family with decent gas mileage for the commute that it comes with.

And, someone who drives an SUV "could" sell the SUV and buy a car that you find more acceptable, but if they "need" an SUV who is anyone to "look down their noses" at them? Especially when those looking down noses make similar cost-benefit analyses in their lives.

[Coito ergo sum]

Wow...and the judgmental smugness keeps a rollin!

South Park was right about the leading cause of smug....