92,000 classified military documents leaked

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Meekychuppet
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:45 pm

The Dawktor wrote:So what should we do Meeky- we ALL get told everything and we ALL have a vote on everything- or do we hand over the job AND the responsibility over to faceless experts in the field? :dono:
I've yet to hear a good reason why we shouldn't know. Like I said, governments only get away with their behaviour because we don't get told about it. Since my taxes pay for it, that makes me complicit so you bet I want to know everything.
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:46 pm

Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:I can tell you the top speed of a steam powered warship can go with two pieces of information, neither of which is obviously of value. Intell works with the tiny bits to make the big picture, and giving the bad guys 92,000 pages of data must be making them believe in Santa.
I'm afraid I don't believe you, and no amount of this kind of argument is ever going to win me over. You don't get to use what you know to tell me what I need to know and retain credibility. I am an intelligent and educated man. I don't need yours or the US military's nannying hand.

I've never come across paranoia like it. So terrified that the populace might think.
I don't care if you believe me or not. You take the steam pressure of a boiler, and the diameter of the main steam supply line and you know exactly how much steam can be delivered. From that you can tell how fast a ship can go.

And please, when the bad guys come to your town, tell the military to stay the fuck out of your life. I'll send flowers.
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Meekychuppet
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:48 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:Releasing classified information has repercussions beyond the simple fact of exposing that information. Experts take a bit from here and a bit from there to do their work. This will be a gold mine for some folks who are trying to figure out who got their boss killed by a Predator. And it won't just be the person who said something, perhaps unwittingly, to a person who passed it along.
As does not releasing them. The wider point is that if governments were truly accountable for their actions then these wars wouldn't start in the first place because there is no way they would get away with it. No war = no deaths. But then again this is all very patriotic to argue that war protects us. This is the US of A after all. They have to be blowing the shit out of something.
The wider point? Irresponsible leaking of classified information just got chucked out the window and was replaced by "Government BAD!" So people will die, I guess that's the narrower point. Especially if you are the person dying.

I'll never figure that line of thought out. Thankfully.
You haven;t demonstrated it's irresponsible. Not by a long shot. I didn't say 'Government BAD!', but it is telling that every patriotic argument is an attempt to simplify it in to such terms. That's what governments do, give the people buzzwords and catchphrases to save them the trouble of thinking.

And I love how NOW you're bothered about those dying, now that it's Americans at risk and not Arabs.
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

Meekychuppet
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:49 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:I can tell you the top speed of a steam powered warship can go with two pieces of information, neither of which is obviously of value. Intell works with the tiny bits to make the big picture, and giving the bad guys 92,000 pages of data must be making them believe in Santa.
I'm afraid I don't believe you, and no amount of this kind of argument is ever going to win me over. You don't get to use what you know to tell me what I need to know and retain credibility. I am an intelligent and educated man. I don't need yours or the US military's nannying hand.

I've never come across paranoia like it. So terrified that the populace might think.
I don't care if you believe me or not. You take the steam pressure of a boiler, and the diameter of the main steam supply line and you know exactly how much steam can be delivered. From that you can tell how fast a ship can go.

And please, when the bad guys come to your town, tell the military to stay the fuck out of your life. I'll send flowers.
See? THE BOGEYMAN WILL GET YOU!

It's a crock of shit. Scare tactics to muster the plebs. I'm not arguing against the military. I am arguing against authoritarianism and secrecy. You keep trying to divide this in to the grand patriots who look after us versus the tree hugging liberal. It just isn't like that.
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:51 pm

Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:Releasing classified information has repercussions beyond the simple fact of exposing that information. Experts take a bit from here and a bit from there to do their work. This will be a gold mine for some folks who are trying to figure out who got their boss killed by a Predator. And it won't just be the person who said something, perhaps unwittingly, to a person who passed it along.
As does not releasing them. The wider point is that if governments were truly accountable for their actions then these wars wouldn't start in the first place because there is no way they would get away with it. No war = no deaths. But then again this is all very patriotic to argue that war protects us. This is the US of A after all. They have to be blowing the shit out of something.
The wider point? Irresponsible leaking of classified information just got chucked out the window and was replaced by "Government BAD!" So people will die, I guess that's the narrower point. Especially if you are the person dying.

I'll never figure that line of thought out. Thankfully.
You haven;t demonstrated it's irresponsible. Not by a long shot. I didn't say 'Government BAD!', but it is telling that every patriotic argument is an attempt to simplify it in to such terms. That's what governments do, give the people buzzwords and catchphrases to save them the trouble of thinking.

And I love how NOW you're bothered about those dying, now that it's Americans at risk and not Arabs.
Getting non-involved people killed in irresponsible. That clear enough?

And I've been talking about Ay-rabs all along, if you had bothered to read my posts you'd see that. Red herrings not allowed.
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Meekychuppet
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:54 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:Releasing classified information has repercussions beyond the simple fact of exposing that information. Experts take a bit from here and a bit from there to do their work. This will be a gold mine for some folks who are trying to figure out who got their boss killed by a Predator. And it won't just be the person who said something, perhaps unwittingly, to a person who passed it along.
As does not releasing them. The wider point is that if governments were truly accountable for their actions then these wars wouldn't start in the first place because there is no way they would get away with it. No war = no deaths. But then again this is all very patriotic to argue that war protects us. This is the US of A after all. They have to be blowing the shit out of something.
The wider point? Irresponsible leaking of classified information just got chucked out the window and was replaced by "Government BAD!" So people will die, I guess that's the narrower point. Especially if you are the person dying.

I'll never figure that line of thought out. Thankfully.
You haven;t demonstrated it's irresponsible. Not by a long shot. I didn't say 'Government BAD!', but it is telling that every patriotic argument is an attempt to simplify it in to such terms. That's what governments do, give the people buzzwords and catchphrases to save them the trouble of thinking.

And I love how NOW you're bothered about those dying, now that it's Americans at risk and not Arabs.
Getting non-involved people killed in irresponsible. That clear enough?

And I've been talking about Ay-rabs all along, if you had bothered to read my posts you'd see that. Red herrings not allowed.
Has anyone been killed a a result of this?

I think not.
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

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Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:57 pm

Meekychuppet wrote:Has anyone been killed a a result of this?

I think not.
Okay, I take that a promise that nobody will be killed. A guarantee if you will.
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:59 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:Has anyone been killed a a result of this?

I think not.
Okay, I take that a promise that nobody will be killed. A guarantee if you will.
You can if you like. I didn't say that, but it's up to you. People may well die - they're dying anyway so I don't see a great deal of merit in this.
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:01 pm

Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:Has anyone been killed a a result of this?

I think not.
Okay, I take that a promise that nobody will be killed. A guarantee if you will.
You can if you like. I didn't say that, but it's up to you. People may well die - they're dying anyway so I don't see a great deal of merit in this.
Tell me they had to die before they started school? If you don't give a fuck about the Ay-rabs, that's okay, but don't pretend it doesn't matter.
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:03 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:Has anyone been killed a a result of this?

I think not.
Okay, I take that a promise that nobody will be killed. A guarantee if you will.
You can if you like. I didn't say that, but it's up to you. People may well die - they're dying anyway so I don't see a great deal of merit in this.
Tell me they had to die before they started school? If you don't give a fuck about the Ay-rabs, that's okay, but don't pretend it doesn't matter.
No, I am saying that the pretext that secrecy save lives is spurious when they are dying anyway.
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:04 pm

Meekychuppet wrote:No, I am saying that the pretext that secrecy save lives is spurious when they are dying anyway.
Tell me how you when they would have died, please?
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:08 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:No, I am saying that the pretext that secrecy save lives is spurious when they are dying anyway.
Tell me how you when they would have died, please?
I don't, but those who are dead now are. Since we are killing them by the truckload, how has secrecy helped?
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

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Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:10 pm

Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:No, I am saying that the pretext that secrecy save lives is spurious when they are dying anyway.
Tell me how you when they would have died, please?
I don't, but those who are dead now are. Since we are killing them by the truckload, how has secrecy helped?
Killing more people will help in what fashion? I find it disturbing that we can casually dismiss deaths brought about for the purpose of some internet coup. That's too fucking crazy for me to deal with.
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:12 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:No, I am saying that the pretext that secrecy save lives is spurious when they are dying anyway.
Tell me how you when they would have died, please?
I don't, but those who are dead now are. Since we are killing them by the truckload, how has secrecy helped?
Killing more people will help in what fashion? I find it disturbing that we can casually dismiss deaths brought about for the purpose of some internet coup. That's too fucking crazy for me to deal with.
Who said killing more people will help?
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
eRvin wrote:People can see what a fucking freak you are. Have you not noticed all the disparaging comments you get?
rum wrote:What a cunt you are. Truly.

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:13 pm

Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:No, I am saying that the pretext that secrecy save lives is spurious when they are dying anyway.
Tell me how you when they would have died, please?
I don't, but those who are dead now are. Since we are killing them by the truckload, how has secrecy helped?
Killing more people will help in what fashion? I find it disturbing that we can casually dismiss deaths brought about for the purpose of some internet coup. That's too fucking crazy for me to deal with.
Who said killing more people will help?
It won't, but we seem to be okay with that, as long as the government gets its tail twisted in the process. Or have you not been reading your posts?
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