92,000 classified military documents leaked

[Meekychuppet]

I like truthiness. I'm outraged about the fact that there are documents on the cold war that are still being kept secret, but that doesn't change the fact that the idea of releasing them at the time they were the most volatile is a fucking idiotic, backwards idea.

There are agents who worked in countries during the Cold War that are still in place. Outing them means they'll be dead, or worse. Want to see this?

No obviously not ! my concern is that there are people still in positions of privilege and power that probably should be dead or worse .

People will die from this.

They're dying anyway, it's just happens that they are Ay-rabs. I'm sure that bothers America as much as the loss of allied troops does.

[natselrox]

Hey Zilla, would you please elaborate your thoughts on the kinds of risk these documents pose? Is it that the civilians who helped the troops who are at maximum risk? And what's the harm in releasing classified documents after a battle is over?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[quote="Meekychuppet"They're dying anyway, it's just happens that they are Ay-rabs. I'm sure that bothers America as much as the loss of allied troops does.[/quote]
Fuck. Scenario: A 12 yo who doesn't know from shit will be killed because his daddy told a guy who told a guy who told a spook that he'd seen some trucks going into a canyon. Ay-rabs or not, that's just fucked up.

[Meekychuppet]

They're dying anyway, it's just happens that they are Ay-rabs. I'm sure that bothers America as much as the loss of allied troops does.

Fuck. Scenario: A 12 yo who doesn't know from shit will be killed because his daddy told a guy who told a guy who told a spook that he'd seen some trucks going into a canyon. Ay-rabs or not, that's just fucked up.

And we'd never now it was happening without this information.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

They're dying anyway, it's just happens that they are Ay-rabs. I'm sure that bothers America as much as the loss of allied troops does.

Fuck. Scenario: A 12 yo who doesn't know from shit will be killed because his daddy told a guy who told a guy who told a spook that he'd seen some trucks going into a canyon. Ay-rabs or not, that's just fucked up.

And we'd never now it was happening without this information.

That scenario actually happened a few decades ago. Without a leak the source of the intell would not have been identified. The kids, four of them, died slow pour les encourager autres.

[The Dawktor]

I like truthiness. I'm outraged about the fact that there are documents on the cold war that are still being kept secret, but that doesn't change the fact that the idea of releasing them at the time they were the most volatile is a fucking idiotic, backwards idea.

There are agents who worked in countries during the Cold War that are still in place. Outing them means they'll be dead, or worse. Want to see this?

No obviously not ! my concern is that there are people still in positions of privilege and power that probably should be dead or worse .

I agree- there are loads of twats in positions of power and many many more in the public- I keep confidences for a living- most do not and most are not intellectually equipped to process complicated information. Just because we (here) like the idea of open Government and think that what we think about anything is important- does not make it so! Someone has to make the decisions and (do not misunderstand me- they should be held to account for any screw-ups) BUT the public does not NEED to know everything.
Medical analogy- if someone 'leaked' 92000 pages of personal details- we'd ALL be rightly pissed off because some twats who now had access to that confidential information COULD put it to some unpleasant use.

In all walks of life WE put our lives/interests/property in the hands of specialists- be they Neurosurgeons or plumbers- we do these things on trust and with an expectation of confidentiality. I'm sure that 91000 of the pages will be boring bollocks about toilet paper ordering but the rest is something that we almost certainly don't need to know because it won't make any difference to us but could really mean life/death for some.

One thing is for certain- I am no longer selling my secrets to the US- and nor will anyone else!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Nice sterile atmosphere for this. No blood, no screams, no orphans and widows. The real world doesn't work that way, however.

[Meekychuppet]

They're dying anyway, it's just happens that they are Ay-rabs. I'm sure that bothers America as much as the loss of allied troops does.

Fuck. Scenario: A 12 yo who doesn't know from shit will be killed because his daddy told a guy who told a guy who told a spook that he'd seen some trucks going into a canyon. Ay-rabs or not, that's just fucked up.

And we'd never now it was happening without this information.

That scenario actually happened a few decades ago. Without a leak the source of the intell would not have been identified. The kids, four of them, died slow pour les encourager autres.

What point are you trying to make?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

They're dying anyway, it's just happens that they are Ay-rabs. I'm sure that bothers America as much as the loss of allied troops does.

Fuck. Scenario: A 12 yo who doesn't know from shit will be killed because his daddy told a guy who told a guy who told a spook that he'd seen some trucks going into a canyon. Ay-rabs or not, that's just fucked up.

And we'd never now it was happening without this information.

That scenario actually happened a few decades ago. Without a leak the source of the intell would not have been identified. The kids, four of them, died slow pour les encourager autres.

What point are you trying to make?

Releasing classified information has repercussions beyond the simple fact of exposing that information. Experts take a bit from here and a bit from there to do their work. This will be a gold mine for some folks who are trying to figure out who got their boss killed by a Predator. And it won't just be the person who said something, perhaps unwittingly, to a person who passed it along.

[Meekychuppet]

I like truthiness. I'm outraged about the fact that there are documents on the cold war that are still being kept secret, but that doesn't change the fact that the idea of releasing them at the time they were the most volatile is a fucking idiotic, backwards idea.

There are agents who worked in countries during the Cold War that are still in place. Outing them means they'll be dead, or worse. Want to see this?

No obviously not ! my concern is that there are people still in positions of privilege and power that probably should be dead or worse .

I agree- there are loads of twats in positions of power and many many more in the public- I keep confidences for a living- most do not and most are not intellectually equipped to process complicated information. Just because we (here) like the idea of open Government and think that what we think about anything is important- does not make it so! Someone has to make the decisions and (do not misunderstand me- they should be held to account for any screw-ups) BUT the public does not NEED to know everything.
Medical analogy- if someone 'leaked' 92000 pages of personal details- we'd ALL be rightly pissed off because some twats who now had access to that confidential information COULD put it to some unpleasant use.

In all walks of life WE put our lives/interests/property in the hands of specialists- be they Neurosurgeons or plumbers- we do these things on trust and with an expectation of confidentiality. I'm sure that 91000 of the pages will be boring bollocks about toilet paper ordering but the rest is something that we almost certainly don't need to know because it won't make any difference to us but could really mean life/death for some.

One thing is for certain- I am no longer selling my secrets to the US- and nor will anyone else!

The doctor-patient is agreed upon by all parties. I'm pretty sure the Afghans didn't sign up for this. Whatever the public does or does not need to know might be an interesting debate, but who makes that decision? and aside from the need, the compelling point is the right to know. I ca decide for myself what I think about all of this. The stranglehold of governments on power is patently abused time and time again.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I can tell you the top speed of a steam powered warship can go with two pieces of information, neither of which is obviously of value. Intell works with the tiny bits to make the big picture, and giving the bad guys 92,000 pages of data must be making them believe in Santa.

[Meekychuppet]

Releasing classified information has repercussions beyond the simple fact of exposing that information. Experts take a bit from here and a bit from there to do their work. This will be a gold mine for some folks who are trying to figure out who got their boss killed by a Predator. And it won't just be the person who said something, perhaps unwittingly, to a person who passed it along.

As does not releasing them. The wider point is that if governments were truly accountable for their actions then these wars wouldn't start in the first place because there is no way they would get away with it. No war = no deaths. But then again this is all very patriotic to argue that war protects us. This is the US of A after all. They have to be blowing the shit out of something.

[The Dawktor]

I like truthiness. I'm outraged about the fact that there are documents on the cold war that are still being kept secret, but that doesn't change the fact that the idea of releasing them at the time they were the most volatile is a fucking idiotic, backwards idea.

There are agents who worked in countries during the Cold War that are still in place. Outing them means they'll be dead, or worse. Want to see this?

No obviously not ! my concern is that there are people still in positions of privilege and power that probably should be dead or worse .

I agree- there are loads of twats in positions of power and many many more in the public- I keep confidences for a living- most do not and most are not intellectually equipped to process complicated information. Just because we (here) like the idea of open Government and think that what we think about anything is important- does not make it so! Someone has to make the decisions and (do not misunderstand me- they should be held to account for any screw-ups) BUT the public does not NEED to know everything.
Medical analogy- if someone 'leaked' 92000 pages of personal details- we'd ALL be rightly pissed off because some twats who now had access to that confidential information COULD put it to some unpleasant use.

In all walks of life WE put our lives/interests/property in the hands of specialists- be they Neurosurgeons or plumbers- we do these things on trust and with an expectation of confidentiality. I'm sure that 91000 of the pages will be boring bollocks about toilet paper ordering but the rest is something that we almost certainly don't need to know because it won't make any difference to us but could really mean life/death for some.

One thing is for certain- I am no longer selling my secrets to the US- and nor will anyone else!

The doctor-patient is agreed upon by all parties. I'm pretty sure the Afghans didn't sign up for this. Whatever the public does or does not need to know might be an interesting debate, but who makes that decision? and aside from the need, the compelling point is the right to know. I ca decide for myself what I think about all of this. The stranglehold of governments on power is patently abused time and time again.

So what should we do Meeky- we ALL get told everything and we ALL have a vote on everything- or do we hand over the job AND the responsibility over to faceless experts in the field?

[Meekychuppet]

I can tell you the top speed of a steam powered warship can go with two pieces of information, neither of which is obviously of value. Intell works with the tiny bits to make the big picture, and giving the bad guys 92,000 pages of data must be making them believe in Santa.

I'm afraid I don't believe you, and no amount of this kind of argument is ever going to win me over. You don't get to use what you know to tell me what I need to know and retain credibility. I am an intelligent and educated man. I don't need yours or the US military's nannying hand.

I've never come across paranoia like it. So terrified that the populace might think.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Releasing classified information has repercussions beyond the simple fact of exposing that information. Experts take a bit from here and a bit from there to do their work. This will be a gold mine for some folks who are trying to figure out who got their boss killed by a Predator. And it won't just be the person who said something, perhaps unwittingly, to a person who passed it along.

As does not releasing them. The wider point is that if governments were truly accountable for their actions then these wars wouldn't start in the first place because there is no way they would get away with it. No war = no deaths. But then again this is all very patriotic to argue that war protects us. This is the US of A after all. They have to be blowing the shit out of something.

The wider point? Irresponsible leaking of classified information just got chucked out the window and was replaced by "Government BAD!" So people will die, I guess that's the narrower point. Especially if you are the person dying.

I'll never figure that line of thought out. Thankfully.