92,000 classified military documents leaked

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92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by RuleBritannia » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:37 pm

"The War Logs"

The Guardian, The New YorK Times, Der Spiegel


US says Wikileaks could 'threaten national security'
The United States has condemned as "irresponsible" the leak of 90,000 military records, saying publication could threaten national security.

The documents released by the Wikileaks website include details of killings of Afghan civilians unreported until now.

Three news organisations had advance access to the records, which also show Nato concerns that Pakistan and Iran are helping the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Pakistan has denied claims its intelligence agency backed the group.

The Pakistani presidential spokeswoman, Farahnaz Ispahani, said the leaks might be an attempt to sabotage the new strategic dialogue between the US and Pakistan.

A spokesman for Afghan President Hamid Karzai said he was "shocked" at the scale of the leaks, but thought that "most of this is not new".

The huge cache of classified papers - posted by Wikileaks as the Afghan War Diary - is one of the biggest leaks in US history. It was also given in advance to the New York Times, the Guardian and the German news magazine, Der Spiegel.

The founder of Wikileaks, Julian Assange, said he had no reason to doubt the reliability of the reports.

"When we publish material, what we say is: the document as we describe it is true," he said at a news conference in London.

"We publish CIA reports all the time. They are legitimate reports, but they don't mean the CIA is telling the truth."

Mr Assange said there was no one overarching revelation to come out of the cache.

"The real story of this material is that it's war - it's one damn thing after another," he said. "It is the continuous small events, the continuous deaths of children, insurgents, allied forces, the maimed people. Search for the word 'amputation' in this material, or 'amputee', and there are dozens and dozens of references."

He compared the impact of the released material to the opening of the archives of the East German secret police, the Stasi.

Taliban-ISI meetings?

In a statement, US National Security Adviser Gen James Jones said such classified information "could put the lives of Americans and our partners at risk".

He said the documents covered the period from January 2004 to December 2009, before President Barack Obama "announced a new strategy with a substantial increase in resources for Afghanistan".

But Mr Assange was sceptical, saying: "A new policy by Obama doesn't mean new practice by the US military."

He also said Wikileaks had "tried hard to make sure that this material does not put innocents at harm".

"All the material is over seven months old so is of no current operational consequence, even though it may be of very significant investigative consequence."

After being asked repeatedly by reporters whether he believed some of the incidents described in the documents constituted war crimes, Mr Assange said: "It is up to a court to decide, clearly, whether something is, in the end, a crime."

"That said, prima facie, there does appear to be evidence of war crimes in this material," he added.

He cited as an example an attack in June 2007 by a secret US special forces unit, Task Force 373, which used a Himars (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System) to begin a raid on a compound where a senior al-Qaeda leader, Abu-Laith al-Libi, was thought to be hiding. Seven children died.

The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force acknowledged the deaths of the children at the time, but stated that coalition troops had attacked because of "nefarious activity" there.

It did not mention they had targeted al-Libi nor used a Himars before any shots had been fired at them, and has not commented on the details included in the Wikileaks papers.

Pakistan's government meanwhile denied claims its Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency backed the Taliban in the war in Afghanistan.

One of the leaked documents refers to an alleged meeting between insurgents and the former ISI chief, Lt Gen Hamid Gul.

He dismissed the Wikileaks material as "pure fiction which is being sold as intelligence".

"It's not intelligence," Gen Gul, who ran the agency from 1987 to 1989, told the BBC. "It may have a financial angle to it but more than that it is not hardcore [intelligence]. I'm an old veteran. I know."

"It is all wrong. It's precisely as their intelligence regarding Saddam Hussein keeping weapons of mass destruction in his closet," he added. "This is all based on falsehood. That is why they are not winning, because they have no cause."

Pakistani officials have denied that Gen Gul still works for the ISI.

The reports also suggest:

* The Taliban has had access to portable heat-seeking missiles to shoot at aircraft
* A secret US unit of army and navy special forces, Task Force 273, has been engaged on missions to "capture or kill" top insurgents
* Many civilian casualties - caused by Taliban roadside bombs and Nato missions that went wrong - have gone unreported
* Iran is engaged in an extensive covert campaign to arm, finance and equip the Taliban and Afghan warlords allied to al-Qaeda

'Civilian deaths'

But the head of the Foreign Relations Committee in the US Senate said the leak came at a "critical stage" for US policy in the region.

"However illegally these documents came to light, they raise serious questions about the reality of America's policy toward Pakistan and Afghanistan," Democratic Senator John Kerry said.

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said he did not think the leaks would damage the international effort in Afghanistan.

Wikileaks says it delayed the release of about 15,000 reports from the archive as part of a "harm minimisation process demanded by our source".

The Guardian and the New York Times say they had no contact with the original source of the leak, but spent weeks cross-checking the information.

Earlier this year, Wikileaks posted a video on its website which it said showed the killings of civilians by a US military helicopter in Baghdad in 2007.

A US military analyst, Bradley Manning, is awaiting trial on criminal charges of leaking the video.

A former hacker, Adrian Lamo, said Mr Manning boasted to him about handing over military videos and 260,000 classified US embassy messages to Wikileaks.

Wikileaks has refused to identify its source for the video or the US military documents.

Meanwhile, Nato says it is investigating reports that as many as 45 civilians died in an air strike in Helmand province on Friday. A BBC journalist has spoken to villagers in Regey who said they witnessed the incident.

A Nato spokesman said international forces went to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties.
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Trolldor » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:39 pm

A little good, most completely fucking stupid though.
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by sandinista » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:22 pm

The Mad Hatter wrote:A little good, most completely fucking stupid though.
What do you mean? :think:
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Ian » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:42 pm

sandinista wrote:
The Mad Hatter wrote:A little good, most completely fucking stupid though.
What do you mean? :think:
92,000 is irresponsible beyond the point of criminal. Reckless with human lives. There's no way Wikileaks' staff read through 92,000 documents related to national security, but they published them for all the world to see.

That doesn't even fall under the category of "whistle-blowing". It's like lighting an offfice building on fire because you're ideologically opposed to the work done by one of the tenants, and assuming that everyone else will get by just fine.

There's a reason Julian Assange no longer has a permanent place of residence, and why Wikileaks has to keep multiple servers hidden. I swear, I'd kill that bastard in person if I had the chance. I don't care what his ideological goals are - the ends don't justify these means.

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:57 pm

I think he's a hero myself.
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by PsychoSerenity » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:05 pm

US says Wikileaks could 'threaten national security'
What exactly is national security? And how is it threatened by people finding out what has been going on in Afghanistan?
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Meekychuppet » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:13 pm

Psychoserenity wrote:
US says Wikileaks could 'threaten national security'
What exactly is national security? And how is it threatened by people finding out what has been going on in Afghanistan?
It means that we the people can pay for these wars but if we want to know what the money is spent on then we can fuck off.
Rum wrote:Does it occur to you that you have subscribed to the model of maleness you seem to be pushing in order to justify your innately hostile and aggressive nature? I have noticed it often and even wondered if it might be some sort of personality disorder. You should consider this possibility.

Rum wrote:Did I leave out being a twat? (With ref to your sig)
Things Rum has diagnosed me with to date: "personality disorder", autism, Aspergers.
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by AshtonBlack » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:21 pm

IF and it's a big IF the documents don't compromise ongoing operations, or give current force dispositions, tactics or capabilities then I don't see how it's a national security issue.

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Ian » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:22 pm

Meekychuppet wrote:
Psychoserenity wrote:
US says Wikileaks could 'threaten national security'
What exactly is national security? And how is it threatened by people finding out what has been going on in Afghanistan?
It means that we the people can pay for these wars but if we want to know what the money is spent on then we can fuck off.
If some good comes out of this, then wonderful. But nobody knows what harm could come out of it all, including and especially Wikileaks.

92,000 classified documents published on the net, just because he could do it. Ninety-two fucking thousand! He's no hero. A hero might have found some select documents and published them. He's an overgrown child.

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:23 pm

Meekychuppet wrote:I think he's a hero myself.
I would most seriously disagree with you.
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by AshtonBlack » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:24 pm

Ian wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Psychoserenity wrote:
US says Wikileaks could 'threaten national security'
What exactly is national security? And how is it threatened by people finding out what has been going on in Afghanistan?
It means that we the people can pay for these wars but if we want to know what the money is spent on then we can fuck off.
If some good comes out of this, then wonderful. But nobody knows what harm could come out of it all, including and especially Wikileaks.

92,000 classified documents published on the net, just because he could do it. Ninety-two fucking thousand! He's no hero. A hero might have found some select documents and published them. He's an overgrown child.
He's also had his staff and the staff of three national news papers to go over them, for weeks. It is possible that they have been read before publishing.

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by RuleBritannia » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:27 pm

AshtonBlack wrote:
Ian wrote:
Meekychuppet wrote:
Psychoserenity wrote:
US says Wikileaks could 'threaten national security'
What exactly is national security? And how is it threatened by people finding out what has been going on in Afghanistan?
It means that we the people can pay for these wars but if we want to know what the money is spent on then we can fuck off.
If some good comes out of this, then wonderful. But nobody knows what harm could come out of it all, including and especially Wikileaks.

92,000 classified documents published on the net, just because he could do it. Ninety-two fucking thousand! He's no hero. A hero might have found some select documents and published them. He's an overgrown child.
He's also had his staff and the staff of three national news papers to go over them, for weeks. It is possible that they have been read before publishing.
Plus only about 14,000 have actually been published, so far...
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:30 pm

AshtonBlack wrote:He's also had his staff and the staff of three national news papers to go over them, for weeks. It is possible that they have been read before publishing.
And we should trust all those people?
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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by AshtonBlack » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:33 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
AshtonBlack wrote:He's also had his staff and the staff of three national news papers to go over them, for weeks. It is possible that they have been read before publishing.
And we should trust all those people?
Not at all. But as I mentioned, if the published documents do not compromise OpSec then why are they classified at all?

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Re: 92,000 classified military documents leaked

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:37 pm

AshtonBlack wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
AshtonBlack wrote:He's also had his staff and the staff of three national news papers to go over them, for weeks. It is possible that they have been read before publishing.
And we should trust all those people?
Not at all.
Skying the stuff out there and hoping it won't do any damage is a bad plan from the start, but I don't really think the perp cares if people will get killed because of this.
But as I mentioned, if the published documents do not compromise OpSec then why are they classified at all?
Stuff I did in '70-'72 is still classified, until '22. Other, later things are classified until much later than that.
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