All religions are bad, but Islam is worse than others

[Hermit]

Yes, there are dangers in generalising from anecdotal evidence, but at least christians no longer stone people to death even though that is advocated in the bible on numerous occasions.

Child of 13 stoned to death in Somalia
31 October 2008

A girl stoned to death in Somalia this week was 13 years old, not 23, contrary to earlier news reports. She had been accused of adultery in breach of Islamic law.

Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was killed on Monday 27 October, by a group of 50 men in a stadium in the southern port of Kismayu, in front of around 1,000 spectators. Somali journalists who had reported she was 23 have told Amnesty International that they judged her age by her physical appearance.

Inside the stadium, militia members opened fire when some of the witnesses to the killing attempted to save her life, and shot dead a boy who was a bystander. An al-Shabab spokeperson was later reported to have apologized for the death of the child, and said the militia member would be punished.

At one point during the stoning, Amnesty International has been told by numerous eyewitnesses that nurses were instructed to check whether Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was still alive when buried in the ground. They removed her from the ground, declared that she was, and she was replaced in the hole where she had been buried for the stoning to continue.

Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was accused of adultery, but sources told Amnesty International that she had in fact been raped by three men, and had attempted to report this rape to the al-Shabab militia who control Kismayo. It was this act that resulted in her being accused of adultery and detained. None of men she accused of rape were arrested.

She was detained by militia of the Kismayo authorities, a coalition of Al-shabab and clan militias. During this time, she was reportedly extremely distressed, with some individuals stating she had become mentally unstable.

Amnesty International has campaigned to end the use of the punishment of stoning, calling it gruesome and horrific. This killing of Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow demonstrates the cruelty and the inherent discrimination against women of this punishment.

Amnesty International

[charlou]

This story mady me cry when I read it the first time. It still affects me deeply.

Words are inadequate to convey all that I think and feel about this kind of horrible violation of humanity.

[soul_biscuit]

Somalia is a fucking disaster area. The girl got stoned for trying to turn in the men who raped her. I hope they get a legitimate government in place, and soon.

Not that it would necessarily stop this kind of horror. Stoning is still carried out in Saudi Arabia, by way of upending a dump truck load of boulders on the victim (usually a woman.) This is according to Durro's admirable thread on RDF.

[Hermit]

This story mady me cry when I read it the first time. It still affects me deeply.

Words are inadequate to convey all that I think and feel about this kind of horrible violation of humanity.

Same here, and I made the mistake of reading it again.

[Trolldor]

hmm..

[Red Katie]

It didn't make me cry. It made me want to shoot all the men in Somalia.

[Psi Wavefunction]

This kind of stuff makes me hate ideological viruses more than ever... and the fact that governments do nothing to 'immunise' people against them, since people susceptible to ideologies are useful political tools :pissed:


Oh, and this thread title would be illegal under UN's new anti-defamation act, no?

Islam is full of shit.

Ooops, sorry!

[soul_biscuit]

Ooops, sorry!

Don't worry, the anti-defamation resolution is non-binding (for now.)

So Fuck Islam in its DIrty Ass.

[al-rawandi]

Yes, there are dangers in generalising from anecdotal evidence, but at least christians no longer stone people to death even though that is advocated in the bible on numerous occasions.

Child of 13 stoned to death in Somalia
31 October 2008

A girl stoned to death in Somalia this week was 13 years old, not 23, contrary to earlier news reports. She had been accused of adultery in breach of Islamic law.

Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was killed on Monday 27 October, by a group of 50 men in a stadium in the southern port of Kismayu, in front of around 1,000 spectators. Somali journalists who had reported she was 23 have told Amnesty International that they judged her age by her physical appearance.

Inside the stadium, militia members opened fire when some of the witnesses to the killing attempted to save her life, and shot dead a boy who was a bystander. An al-Shabab spokeperson was later reported to have apologized for the death of the child, and said the militia member would be punished.

At one point during the stoning, Amnesty International has been told by numerous eyewitnesses that nurses were instructed to check whether Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was still alive when buried in the ground. They removed her from the ground, declared that she was, and she was replaced in the hole where she had been buried for the stoning to continue.

Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was accused of adultery, but sources told Amnesty International that she had in fact been raped by three men, and had attempted to report this rape to the al-Shabab militia who control Kismayo. It was this act that resulted in her being accused of adultery and detained. None of men she accused of rape were arrested.

She was detained by militia of the Kismayo authorities, a coalition of Al-shabab and clan militias. During this time, she was reportedly extremely distressed, with some individuals stating she had become mentally unstable.

Amnesty International has campaigned to end the use of the punishment of stoning, calling it gruesome and horrific. This killing of Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow demonstrates the cruelty and the inherent discrimination against women of this punishment.

Amnesty International

As prescribed by Islam. A woman must bring 4 witnesses to prove rape. If not... well you get the picture.

[al-rawandi]

Somalia is a fucking disaster area. The girl got stoned for trying to turn in the men who raped her. I hope they get a legitimate government in place, and soon.

Not that it would necessarily stop this kind of horror. Stoning is still carried out in Saudi Arabia, by way of upending a dump truck load of boulders on the victim (usually a woman.) This is according to Durro's admirable thread on RDF.

What do you mean "legitimate"? In the democratic sense? If so I suggest you reserve your hope, as the popular government would be Islamic (the only government to rule the country successfully since Siad Barre was the Islamic Courts Union, that as its first priority instituted the Hudud of Shariah). And Saudi Arabia does not have "legitimate" government in the sense we use in the liberal western world, it has a government built upon the theory of governance for which Ibn Khaldun coined the term 'Asabiyya (Tribal Solidarity). I hate to be the one to say that your "hopes" are a complete waste for the kind of fanatics that reside in this part of the world. People in the west with their good hearts cling to the notion that reason will triumph, that rational actors will prevail. This kind of hope is a form of dogmatism, and a dangerous one, never once born out by history or current events. No Islamic society will exist peacefully with itself or non-Muslim neighbors. It never has and it never will. This kind of fanatacism has as its central tenet a "utopia" that anyone in the western world would view, accurately, as a dystopia.

You are better off hoping, that we can disengage with these fanatics and spend our time fixing what is salvageable about our own societies before we are forced to re-primitivize our our cultures to combat the influx of these fanatics.

[al-rawandi]

It didn't make me cry. It made me want to shoot all the men in Somalia.

Short sighted and emotionally reactive. Your assumption (which is incorrect) is that men are the exclusive driving force of Islam, and women are its unwilling victims. Muslim women are complicit in the perpetuation of this "status quo", call it fanaticism, fatalism, or Stockholm Syndrome. There is little or no outcry from Muslim women when these kind of things take place, except for the Irshad Manji types, who are quickly denounced as apostates, a designation which carries a death sentence in Shariah. More importantly, western feminists are too preoccupied with whether women can play a certain country club in Georgia (US), instead of any of the many issues afflicting women in the Muslim world. Cultural relativity says we should disdain a culture that practices and condones this behavior, yet the multi-culturalists fight on saying Islam is a viable world view, one to be respected.

If you want this to stop, encourage your elected representatives to take a harder line on Islam. We should do something now, before it becomes too costly later. How great would it have been if Neville Chamberlain built a coalition to attack Germany as soon as Hitler violated the DMZ in the Rheinland, or any of the previous provisions of the Treaty of Versailles? How many lives would have been saved? How many Jews, Gays, Brits, Germans and Americans? We must stand up to transgressions againsts civilization as soon as they occur.

[al-rawandi]

Ooops, sorry!

Don't worry, the anti-defamation resolution is non-binding (for now.)

So Fuck Islam in its DIrty Ass.

Do not be so sure, please see the videos I posted on my blog of Muslim states suppressing discussions with NGO's over female genital mutilation because it offends the "shariah". 29 of 32 states that practice FGM are members of the OIC:

http://alrawandi.blogspot.com/2009/02/v ... cking.html

Good luck.

[FedUpWithFaith]

If you want this to stop, encourage your elected representatives to take a harder line on Islam. We should do something now, before it becomes too costly later. How great would it have been if Neville Chamberlain built a coalition to attack Germany as soon as Hitler violated the DMZ in the Rheinland, or any of the previous provisions of the Treaty of Versailles? How many lives would have been saved? How many Jews, Gays, Brits, Germans and Americans? We must stand up to transgressions againsts civilization as soon as they occur.

Is the word I bolded what you really meant? If so, how do you envision I write a letter to my congressman telling them to get tough with an entire religion, a religion that has many decent adherents in our own country?

After Bush's debasement of our foreign policy and Obama's outreach to mend fences with the Muslim world, how do you see a practical path for action while fighting two wars as we go bankrupt? Should we intervene in Somalia, like Clinton did, and get our asses handed to us again? I say we keep out unless the entire world is ready to move (and they'll probably fuck up too). I know we'll just fuck things up. We don't have the stomach for that kind of nation building. Let the Chinese civilize Africa through self-interested investment, as they are somewhat successfully doing now - though spotty. Support initiatives like the Grameen Bank there. Stop subsidizing bullshit and feeding the permanently starving. Otherwise, let them go on maiming and killing each other unless we have systematic long-term strategy to help that really works. In 100 some odd years now, what else has helped?

I want us to rid ourselves of dependence on Muslim oil. That's number one. Remove our main strategic interests there and at least we'll stop driving their corruption with our corruption - which is often equally evil. Take away their money and the enlightened ones will leave with their money to the West and the religious nuts will start infighting. Fuck 'em. Yes, they might send a nuke or two our way as they go down in flames, flailing like wounded animals - assuming they can't reform from within. Our response may well be to annihilate them if we can't find the needles without burning down the haystack. Let's hope something does enlighten them from within so it doesn't come to that. Those forces of enlightment do exist, I know such Muslims personally. Am I doubtful they'll triumph? Yes. But I don't like to ponder the alternative. I just don't think we can't impose reform of this nature on them from the outside. Do you?

[charlou]

It didn't make me cry. It made me want to shoot all the men in Somalia.

Short sighted and emotionally reactive. Your assumption (which is incorrect) is that men are the exclusive driving force of Islam, and women are its unwilling victims. Muslim women are complicit in the perpetuation of this "status quo", call it fanaticism, fatalism, or Stockholm Syndrome. There is little or no outcry from Muslim women when these kind of things take place, except for the Irshad Manji types, who are quickly denounced as apostates, a designation which carries a death sentence in Shariah.

This might explain the reluctance on the part of women to speak out, don't you think?

[Red Katie]

Short-sighted and emotionally reactive.

Jesus.

Of course it was short-sighted and emotionally reactive. I was describing an emotional reaction!

Men.