How do religions start?

[Feck]

Should we start one ?

[mistermack]

So you don't think Paul was a liar then?

I do think he was a liar, but he had to be careful, because what he wrote had to match what others knew.
I think he lied about lots of things, especially the 'road to damascus' incident.
.

[Pappa]

Should we start one ?

I'd feel really guilty for bleeding so much money out of the poor saps.

[Feck]

Should we start one ?

I'd feel really guilty for bleeding so much money out of the poor saps.

Well don't take much then ...just some for me , fuckit some one gave Venomfang X a video camera ! I only want a lens

[mistermack]

Should we start one ?

I'd feel really guilty for bleeding so much money out of the poor saps.

Yes, just like Liberache, I'd feel guilty all the way to the bank!!

[Animavore]

This is how religion starts.

[bhakta]

mistermack , what psychological process do you postulate for Pauls change of mind, given you say he lied about his Damascus road experience? He like you started off believing Christians were liars (or I guess heretics) He went a step further than you and tried to physically destroy them. Then he changed his mind. Why?

[Thinking Aloud]

I think it's fair to say that most modern religions were formed on the back of lies, be they intentional, or as a result of delusion, but I think the origins of the oldest ones - and perhaps those still practiced in less developed parts of the world - are born out of ignorance, and trying to explain the natural world. Taboo and superstition can easily be created by false cause-and-effect correlation (Ug ate from the Pear Tree and then the Volcano erupted and killed half the tribe: the Fire Spirit (who must be watching us to have seen) doesn't like us to eat pears. Perhaps he'll be satisfied if we kill Ug). Combine all these with the concept of something watching, and you have the basis for a superstitious religion. It doesn't have to be a conscious lie - just one borne out of ignorance of any more rational explanation for things.

[Animavore]

mistermack , what psychological process do you postulate for Pauls change of mind, given you say he lied about his Damascus road experience? He like you started off believing Christians were liars (or I guess heretics) He went a step further than you and tried to physically destroy them. Then he changed his mind. Why?

Guilty complex?



Some neurologists have suggested Paul suffered from epilepsy.

[FBM]

How do religions start?

New religions start with a convincing LIAR!!
These are people like Charles Manson, Jesus, Mohammed, and Budda .
You don’t have to be sane to be a convincing liar. In fact, it seems to help if you are a bit mental. People seem to be attracted to a bit of instability, and crazy staring eyes. That’s why these preachers deliberately work themselves up into a frenzy. And to start a religion, you don’t have to convince the intelligent people, you just need larger numbers of the less gifted. They will then subsequently bring up their more intelligent offspring to believe and not to question the crap you have spouted.

And incredibly, once you have started the lies going, others jump in with their own lies to fill in the gaps, often with what they think are the best intentions...

While I agree with you in principle, I'm wondering why you included Buddha in this. He doesn't seem to fit the pattern you describe, though people alleging to represent his teachings centuries later do.

[colubridae]

But people will still say ‘why would they lie?’ . It’s the age-old weapon of the liars. People who are not habitual liars cannot get a grip on why someone would tell such huge lies, so the first instinct is to believe what they are told. Especially if the liar mixes in some very comforting lies that people WISH WERE TRUE. It’s as simple as that. Mix the habitual lies of some with the trusting nature of others, and religion is the inevitable result.

.

Yet you still sucked in farsight's stuff.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anybody else think the OP had just rented "Liar"?

[colubridae]

Anybody else think the OP had just rented "Liar"?

I think you are lying.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anybody else think the OP had just rented "Liar"?

I think you are lying.

If I'm lyin'', I flyin'.

[Ronja]

I'd be interested in seeing studies that look at exactly how religions start.

Read Breaking the Spell by Dan Dennett. He devotes about a quarter of the book to religion's origins - and its social and evolutionary significance - and lists a lot of additional sources in his bibliography.

I second that. "Breaking the Spell" is a really good book - well thought through and well written.