Researcher/Agnostic with an attitude problem -- me

[Trolldor]

Can it be construed as evidence for a deity? I don't know the answer.

I do: No.
Science has this wonderful of explaining morality.

[Stein]

Can it be construed as evidence for a deity? I don't know the answer.

I do: No.
Science has this wonderful of explaining morality.

THIS PATTERN, not altruism in general. Read the OP, JERK!!

[Trolldor]

"You're a Jerk. Why would you do that?"

Point 2: You cannot separate altruism from morality.

[normal]

Can it be construed as evidence for a deity? I don't know the answer.

I do: No.
Science has this wonderful of explaining morality.

THIS PATTERN, not altruism in general. Read the OP, JERK!!

Stein, this is a reminder to follow our rules. Especially our play nice rule.

[epepke]

As far as I can tell, the best evidence that there might be a god, defined as an intelligent creator of the universe, is that some of the speculations about GR and black holes indicate that we might be able to create universes, and this may have happened before.

I don't think that this satisfies many people, as the conceptualization of god as a physics graduate student with a C average does not make them happy, but I think it would explain many things about this universe.

[mindyourmind]

Jesus, way too much text. I'll wait for the dvd and then comment.

[Thinking Aloud]

Jesus: way too much text.

Fixed.

And OT..

And derailed...

[FBM]

As I stated above, I have serious doubts about whether or not altruism even exists or if it's a mis-labeling of unacknowledged, perhaps unconscious, selfish behavior. Seems to me that practically all of volitional human behavior has some self-serving purpose, even if it's nothing more than avoiding future guilt feelings.


If an in-depth discussion of that is not within the scope of this thread, I'll be happy to start another one. However, since the OP is based on the assumption that altruism exists, it seems like it's a fair topic. Stein, it's up to you. Just say the word and I'll put it up for discussion elsewhere.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Just off the top of my head, if altruism helps the community survive, it helps the individual survive, thus it's not really altruistic. There are rare examples of extreme self-sacrifice, but that's the exception to the rule. When I look at human behavior, I see no altruism. If an ostensibly "altruistic" act has a covert intent to win one favor with one's chosen deity, then it's not altruism. If it's just done to make one feel better about him/herself, it's not altruism. Could you provide some real-life examples of true altruism that are common enough to hold humanity back from this alleged devolvement into chaos?

A total stranger, who's not even a fireman, rescuing an old man from a burning building. Don't recall the names, but I do recall it being in the news roughly twenty years ago. The old man was very old, a widower with no prospect for having any more children. The rescuer was quite well off, with a lot to lose, and quite young, with his whole life ahead of him. He had had no children yet. Nothing of practical value seemed behind this one perfect stranger risking his young life by rescuing someone else who was very near the end of his. But something kicked in and made the young man do that anyway. The young man was fairly solitary and not avid for social company. What made him rescue the old man? I also seem to recall that one reason why it made the evening news was that the young man had poor recall of the incident after it happened, leading some to believe that the shock of plunging into the flames had induced some kind of partial amnesia, or perhaps there was such a rush of adrenalin in rushing in in the first place that some instinct kicked in over which the rescuer had scant control.

Stein

This is the same thing that is partially responsible for me being in the military. I did it for the general good so that I could have my homeland when I wanted it. I spent most of my time outside the US, but I knew it was there when I wanted to go back. Everybody here benefited. The vast majority never met me, of course, and "thanks" was extremely rare, but I did it because it was necessary. The phrase "If not me, who? If not now, when?" applies.

[FBM]

...I did it for the general good so that I could have my homeland when I wanted it...

Make up your mind, hombre.

[Stein]

As I stated above, I have serious doubts about whether or not altruism even exists or if it's a mis-labeling of unacknowledged, perhaps unconscious, selfish behavior. Seems to me that practically all of volitional human behavior has some self-serving purpose, even if it's nothing more than avoiding future guilt feelings.


If an in-depth discussion of that is not within the scope of this thread, I'll be happy to start another one. However, since the OP is based on the assumption that altruism exists, it seems like it's a fair topic. Stein, it's up to you. Just say the word and I'll put it up for discussion elsewhere.

I guess if the scrutiny of altruism here might be confined to philosophical altruism of the sort introduced by countercultural outliers like a Buddha, a Socrates, a Christ, etc., that alters whole cultures however incrementally, then it's perfectly relevant for this thread. If it goes farther afield than that, then maybe a new thread is fairer.

Thanks for asking,

Stein

[Stein]

As far as I can tell, the best evidence that there might be a god, defined as an intelligent creator of the universe, is that some of the speculations about GR and black holes indicate that we might be able to create universes, and this may have happened before.

I don't think that this satisfies many people, as the conceptualization of god as a physics graduate student with a C average does not make them happy, but I think it would explain many things about this universe.

OT.

Stein

[FBM]

I guess if the scrutiny of altruism here might be confined to philosophical altruism of the sort introduced by countercultural outliers like a Buddha, a Socrates, a Christ, etc., that alters whole cultures however incrementally, then it's perfectly relevant for this thread. If it goes farther afield than that, then maybe a new thread is fairer.

I'd rather not put limits on the discussion, so maybe I'd be better off starting another thread. I'm kinda tied up atm, but once I get my homework finished...

Thanks for asking,

Stein

No sweat. For once I managed to derail my derail before Charlou had to excise it and give it a new home.