Classroom creationism atheists can live with?

[Twiglet]

According to todays news.com.au , Queensland is to include "Creationism and Intelligent Design" into the curriculum, not in science or religious education. but in ancient history. Quite how ID is ancient history escapes me, but what's not to like about creationism being covered in history?

The full article is linked here
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"CREATIONISM and intelligent design will be taught in Queensland state schools for the first time as part of the new national curriculum. // In Queensland schools, creationism will be offered for discussion in the subject of ancient history, under the topic of "controversies". //

Teachers are still formulating a response to the draft national curriculum, scheduled to be introduced next year. Queensland History Teachers' Association head Kay Bishop said the curriculum asked students to develop their historical skills in an "investigation of a controversial issue" such as "human origins (eg, Darwin's theory of evolution and its critics"). "It's opening up opportunities for debate and discussion, not to push a particular view," Ms Bishop said. Classroom debate about issues encouraged critical thinking – an important tool, she said."

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However, some in the Christian community seem to see the inclusion as a victory for faith based teaching. The same article goes on to report:

"Associated Christian Schools executive officer Lynne Doneley welcomed the draft curriculum, saying it cemented the position of a faith-based approach to teaching.

"We talk to students from a faith science basis, but we're not biased in the delivery of curriculum," Mrs Doneley said. "We say, 'This is where we're coming from' but allow students to make up their own minds."

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[Trolldor]

Constitutional breach.
lol.

[JimC]

Well, it could be treated as an interesting bit of history, going back to the Scopes trial, or even back to "Soapy Sam" Wilberforce, but it will inevitably be used by the religious right (as alluded to in the OP) as a victory against the godless forces of evolution...

If I know my history teachers associations, they will be run by lefties of various persuasions, so I would be interested to know their real motives...

[Trolldor]

Actually, now I think about it, it wouldn't be a constitutional breach would it?
No law is being established, but a revision of the curriculum...

That said, the national curriculum is about to come in to force so this would be edited out rather quickly anyway, yes?
Not including all the history teachers who are going to shit all over the idea irrespective of the state curriculum.

[FBM]

..."We talk to students from a faith science basis, but we're not biased in the delivery of curriculum," Mrs Doneley said. "We say, 'This is where we're coming from' but allow students to make up their own minds."

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A "faith science" basis?




However, since a sizeable number of people do believe in it, it's only reasonable to have it discussed in school (discussed vs taught). Seems to me that could be a great opportunity for open discussion, during which informed people can debunk it, point by ridiculous point. Even if the believing kids aren't convinced at that very time, it could well plant seeds that could later sprout into a rational worldview.

[Deep Sea Isopod]

In Queensland schools, creationism will be offered for discussion in the subject of ancient history, under the topic of "controversies".

Teach the controversy.

Methinks you Aussies should start a campaign against it.

[Trolldor]

In Queensland schools, creationism will be offered for discussion in the subject of ancient history, under the topic of "controversies".

Teach the controversy.

Methinks you Aussies should start a campaign against it.

I don't think we'll need to. This is going to backfire quite severely.

That said, there is no place for it in the classroom, it is not a good opportunity for anything inspite of what FBM said. Any faith-based learning initiative is an act of villainy.

[Deep Sea Isopod]

In Queensland schools, creationism will be offered for discussion in the subject of ancient history, under the topic of "controversies".

Teach the controversy.

Methinks you Aussies should start a campaign against it.

I don't think we'll need to. This is going to backfire quite severely.

That said, there is no place for it in the classroom, it is not a good opportunity for anything inspite of what FBM said. Any faith-based learning initiative is an act of villainy.

I'd say it's ok for the RE classroom, where it can be distinguished as religion.

[virphen]

It has every appearance of creationists trying to get their bollocks into the classroom via stealth.

[charlou]

..."We talk to students from a faith science basis, but we're not biased in the delivery of curriculum," Mrs Doneley said. "We say, 'This is where we're coming from' but allow students to make up their own minds."

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A "faith science" basis?




However, since a sizeable number of people do believe in it, it's only reasonable to have it discussed in school (discussed vs taught). Seems to me that could be a great opportunity for open discussion, during which informed people can debunk it, point by ridiculous point. Even if the believing kids aren't convinced at that very time, it could well plant seeds that could later sprout into a rational worldview.

Take a look at what you quoted there, FBM - this is unlikely to be for discussion ...

... and I wouldn't be surprised if many, if not most non-religious students don't have the knowledge or skill to argue effectively against such shite, if only because they haven't been exposed to the debate in the first place. If anything, there's a risk that some may be misled by such "controversial" teaching.

Queensland is and always has been our most conservative state, and if this is a tactic to slip creationist teaching into schools under the guise of teaching historical "controversy", it doesn't surprise me at all.

Edit: snap, virphen.

[FBM]

Ah. Didn't know that about Queensland. OK. I reverse tack; it's a fucked-up underhanded attempt to teach their kids how to resist education.

[Trolldor]

..."We talk to students from a faith science basis, but we're not biased in the delivery of curriculum," Mrs Doneley said. "We say, 'This is where we're coming from' but allow students to make up their own minds."

_________

A "faith science" basis?




However, since a sizeable number of people do believe in it, it's only reasonable to have it discussed in school (discussed vs taught). Seems to me that could be a great opportunity for open discussion, during which informed people can debunk it, point by ridiculous point. Even if the believing kids aren't convinced at that very time, it could well plant seeds that could later sprout into a rational worldview.

Take a look at what you quoted there, FBM - this is unlikely to be for discussion ...

... and I wouldn't be surprised if many, if not most non-religious students don't have the knowledge or skill to argue effectively against such shite, if only because they haven't been exposed to the debate in the first place. If anything, there's a risk that some may be misled by such "controversial" teaching.

Queensland is and always has been our most conservative state, and if this is a tactic to slip creationist teaching into schools under the guise of teaching historical "controversy", it doesn't surprise me at all.

Edit: snap, virphen.

I wouldn't underestimate the children that much. At least as far as my teachings with students have been, they are not so easy led towards religious bullshit. It almost always has to come in the form of peer groups or family, not from a school, to have an effect.

[charlou]

Actually, it's not just Queensland, it's to be part of the national curriculum. They can with that.

[Hermit]

That said, the national curriculum is about to come in to force so this would be edited out rather quickly anyway, yes?
Not including all the history teachers who are going to shit all over the idea irrespective of the state curriculum.

You haven't read the article, have you? The very first sentence reads: "Creationism and intelligent design will be taught in Queensland state schools for the first time as part of the new national curriculum." It goes on: "Teachers are still formulating a response to the draft national curriculum, scheduled to be introduced next year."

You may as well bring on the storkist theory of procreation next, Kevin Rudd, as part of the push to "opening up opportunities for debate and discussion, not to push a particular view". :I-love-pork:

[FBM]

Actually, it's not just Queensland, it's to be part of the national curriculum. They can with that.

Fugg. Isn't there somebody you can set on fire to prevent that?