Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

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owtth
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Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by owtth » Fri May 28, 2010 8:58 pm

Whilst finding lots to hate about most religions buddhism generally slides by, 'cause they're nice folks associated with kick ass martial arts movies and being "centered". The Dalai Lama is almost universally praised as an all round top-bloke. It can be argued that it's not even a religion but based based upon a philosophy which has been bent out of shape by its proponents. All well and good. His centeredness has written an op-ed piece for The New York Times. The piece is called "Many Faiths, One Truth". They should have left it at that, because at least that is true. In a diatribe against religious intolerance he opens with this:
WHEN I was a boy in Tibet, I felt that my own Buddhist religion must be the best — and that other faiths were somehow inferior. Now I see how naïve I was, and how dangerous the extremes of religious intolerance can be today.
Though intolerance may be as old as religion itself, we still see vigorous signs of its virulence. In Europe, there are intense debates about newcomers wearing veils or wanting to erect minarets and episodes of violence against Muslim immigrants. Radical atheists issue blanket condemnations of those who hold to religious beliefs. In the Middle East, the flames of war are fanned by hatred of those who adhere to a different faith.
Between those who beat up Muslims and those Muslims who seek to destroy non-believers lie those of us who ridicule such mystically-inspired idiocy. What great company we keep.
What a Dick.
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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by Trolldor » Fri May 28, 2010 9:20 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/world/mosque-atta ... -wlrb.html

Yep. Those of a different faith. For example, other Muslims who "aren't really Muslims".
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by Rum » Fri May 28, 2010 9:23 pm

He seems to be confusing me with someone who has a religion. :think:

It is going to take a while for them to get it I fear.

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by owtth » Fri May 28, 2010 9:29 pm

Yeah, I've hardly killed anybody.
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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by charlou » Sat May 29, 2010 2:10 am

Rum wrote:He seems to be confusing me with someone who has a religion. :think:

It is going to take a while for them to get it I fear.
They like to think of us all as being equally deluded so they can feel more sound and justified in their own delusion.
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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by Hermit » Sat May 29, 2010 3:17 am

The Drama Lama wrote:Radical atheists issue blanket condemnations of those who hold to religious beliefs.
Yeah, quite the same as crusades, jihads, suicide-murderers, killings of doctors who perform abortions and so on. The Dalai Lama manages to include one factual mistake and one inappropriate use of an overtly emotional word in a single sentence; We don't condemn people who hold to religious beliefs. We do reject religious beliefs.

And the Dalai Lama is supposed to be on the good end of the religious spectrum? :think:
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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by FBM » Sat May 29, 2010 4:56 am

To be fair, Seraph, a fair number of us do spend a fair amount of time condemning/disparaging the people as much as the faiths (see the subject line and OP, for example). Not all of us, of course, but some atheists can be quite rabid and unfriendly at times.

And, yes, Dolly the Llama's religion is based on utter bullshit, viz, reincarnation, esoteric knowledge and supernatural powers, etc.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by A Monkey Shaved » Sat May 29, 2010 6:02 am

More like a giggling idiot :hehe:
Just because more people believe Jesus is the son of God and not the son of Satan does not make it any truer.

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by FBM » Sat May 29, 2010 6:15 am

A Monkey Shaved wrote:More like a giggling idiot :hehe:

I hope that irony was intentional... :ask:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by Rum » Sat May 29, 2010 6:52 am

Buddhism does have one thing other religions don't seem to have. One might loosely call it 'mind training' which can help people achieve some sort of 'mental peace' I would suggest. One does not of course not need all the woo that goes with it - including the usual superstitious crap.

There is a newer tradition which attempts to ditch all of that. Some people involved have even ditched things like belief in reincarnation, karma etc. It is called Western Buddhism - something I explored in a last ditch attempt some years ago to find a 'religion' that make some sort of sense to me.

Here's a link or two.

http://fwbo.org/

http://westernbuddhism.co.uk/default.aspx

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by FBM » Sat May 29, 2010 7:05 am

Rum wrote:Buddhism does have one thing other religions don't seem to have. One might loosely call it 'mind training' which can help people achieve some sort of 'mental peace' I would suggest. One does not of course not need all the woo that goes with it - including the usual superstitious crap.

There is a newer tradition which attempts to ditch all of that. Some people involved have even ditched things like belief in reincarnation, karma etc. It is called Western Buddhism - something I explored in a last ditch attempt some years ago to find a 'religion' that make some sort of sense to me.

Here's a link or two.

http://fwbo.org/

http://westernbuddhism.co.uk/default.aspx
I'm reading Confession of a Buddhist Atheist atm. Stephen Batchelor started out as a monk in the Tibetan tradition, saw the underlying bullshit in that, then went to Korea for a few years, with a bit more 'success', before leaving the monkhood altogether and devoting his time to separating the Buddha's teachings from all the bullshit that has accreted around it over the centuries. A careful reading of the available literature has, over the past few years, led me to conclude that the whole Mahayana movement (including the esoteric Tibetan schools) is a hi-jacking of the Buddha's name in order to slip Hindu elements back into the system (Atman becomes True Mind, Buddha Mind, etc, and anatta (non-self) becomes True Self :airwank:). The other major tradition extant, Theravada, disregards all Mahayana literature as heretic hi-jacking, but the cultural accretions still prevent understanding of and contradict what the Buddha actually taught as presented in the Pali Canon. The whole edifice has been fucked over royally by people's desires, bigotries, ignorance, greed, etc. As far as I can tell, the best thing to do is to buy up the Pali Canon, as I have done, and read the damned thing for yourself, disregarding all the religious woo-filled crap commonly associated with the title 'Buddhism'.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by Hermit » Sat May 29, 2010 8:36 am

FBM wrote:a fair number of us do spend a fair amount of time condemning/disparaging the people as much as the faiths (see the subject line and OP, for example). Not all of us, of course, but some atheists can be quite rabid and unfriendly at times.
Ah, but they are no true atheists. :razzle: On a more serious note, I would not imply that "atheist condemnation" is on anywhere near the level of conflict and strife that theists have perpetrated in the past and present. In the linked article the Dalai Lama does not care to point out the distinction.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by FBM » Sat May 29, 2010 8:46 am

Seraph wrote:
FBM wrote:a fair number of us do spend a fair amount of time condemning/disparaging the people as much as the faiths (see the subject line and OP, for example). Not all of us, of course, but some atheists can be quite rabid and unfriendly at times.
Ah, but they are no true atheists. :razzle: On a more serious note, I would not imply that "atheist condemnation" is on anywhere near the level of conflict and strife that theists have perpetrated in the past and present. In the linked article the Dalai Lama does not care to point out the distinction.
True that. Maybe we should kick it up a notch or two... :ask:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by Hermit » Sat May 29, 2010 9:01 am

Rum wrote:Buddhism does have one thing other religions don't seem to have. One might loosely call it 'mind training' which can help people achieve some sort of 'mental peace' I would suggest.
In areas where buddhism has a traditional foothold that only seems to apply to males. Buddhism is relentlessly misogynistic to the core and right from the outset. The historical Buddha resisted the ordination of women. Then there are the additional 'Eight Strict Rules' and 'Five Obstacles' that women are subject to. The institutional sexism is suffused throughout everyday practice in buddhist societies. It's a state of affairs that starry-eyed western buddhists and new-agers resolutely refuse to even acknowledge.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Dalai Lama's a bit of a dick

Post by FBM » Sat May 29, 2010 9:24 am

Seraph wrote:
Rum wrote:Buddhism does have one thing other religions don't seem to have. One might loosely call it 'mind training' which can help people achieve some sort of 'mental peace' I would suggest.
In areas where buddhism has a traditional foothold that only seems to apply to males. Buddhism is relentlessly misogynistic to the core and right from the outset. The historical Buddha resisted the ordination of women. Then there are the additional 'Eight Strict Rules' and 'Five Obstacles' that women are subject to. The institutional sexism is suffused throughout everyday practice in buddhist societies. It's a state of affairs that starry-eyed western buddhists and new-agers resolutely refuse to even acknowledge.

Some say that his initial resistance to female ordination was a cosmetic reparation to the paternalistic 'powers that be' of the time. The suttas portray him as saying that women are equally as capable of the highest attainment as men. Remember, Gautama had a religion to sell. Can't go 'round bucking potential customers. ;)

That was tongue-in-cheek, of course. I've read where someone analyzed the Pali Canon suttas through a Marxist lens and concluded that Gautama never intended to start a religion, only a new society, or a new class of citizens within the pre-existing society. Speculation, of course.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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