Israel accuses DPRK of shipping WMD to Syria

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FBM
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Re: Israel accuses DPRK of shipping WMD to Syria

Post by FBM » Mon May 17, 2010 3:14 am

Ian wrote:
FBM wrote: Anyway, both the US and China have too much to lose from a reunification of any kind.
Not sure if I agree with that one. The US would love to see a unified Korea with its government in Seoul (it just can't reunify any other way; Pyongyang's days of power are limited). The expansion of capitalism is always in its global interests. And being able to redeploy/draw down nearly 40,000 troops from Korea to elsewhere would make the US military very happy.
As for China, I doubt they'll see a unified, western-oriented Korea as a strategic threat. For too long now, the North has been the charity case that China would rather not have. I think they'd prefer to increase economic ties with the peninsula than see a continuation of the status quo tensions.
Maybe I'm being a little to hawkish. A lot of what you say makes sense. Even so, what I hear from the locals, including the president of our university, who is a vice-minister in the Ministry of Labor, China has been propping up NK because they don't want a US puppet so near their border. It would cost them heaps to seal that border, which is right now about as porous as the US-Mexico border, as well as to install military bases sufficient to keep it thoroughly strategically defended. China's recent rebuffs of NK seem to have been motivated by the threat of economic (trade) repercussions should they be seen as supporting NK's nuclear agenda. They don't want their buffer zone to disappear; they just want NK to shape up instead of continuing to provoke, thus threatening the status quo.

The US has an interest in maintaining the status quo, too, it seems. If there is a peaceful reunification with a Southern-style democracy, Korea will no longer need US military presence, as it will have no enemies, and the US would be in danger of losing a strategic foothold in NE Asia. Right now, Korea is paying a lot of money annually for the US military presence, rather than take the economic impact of boosting its own military sufficiently to deter Northern aggression. Believe me, with all the bad press over the behavior of US soldiers, Korean citizens wouldn't shed a tear at seeing them leave. Korea would benefit economically and in terms of social unity. Korean domestic politics is strongly divided over the pro- and anti-US military presence issue.

South Koreans want reunification, but they're afraid of the economic burden it would have. They want reunification, but not right now. (I keep asking them 'If not now, when?', seeing as how this sentiment tends to propagate itself) They imagine some point in the not-too-distant future when they will have a strong enough economy to handle the inevitable in-pouring of refugees from the North. That said, should the North collapse internally, they'd welcome the news, generally speaking.

So, the only real beneficiaries of a Northern collapse/reunification would be the North Korean people themselves, but their voices are kept largely quiet by their own regime. I think the South would eventually recover from whatever economic blows a sudden reunification would bring, but most Southerners aren't interested in looking at the long-term.
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Re: Israel accuses DPRK of shipping WMD to Syria

Post by FBM » Wed May 19, 2010 3:50 am

"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

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Re: Israel accuses DPRK of shipping WMD to Syria

Post by Ian » Wed May 19, 2010 12:53 pm

FBM wrote:Ooops.
Well, whaddya know? :ask: :shifty:
And I heard on NPR this morning that the ROK is probably going to refer the matter to the UN Security Council...

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Re: Israel accuses DPRK of shipping WMD to Syria

Post by FBM » Wed May 19, 2010 2:03 pm

Ian wrote:
FBM wrote:Ooops.
Well, whaddya know? :ask: :shifty:
And I heard on NPR this morning that the ROK is probably going to refer the matter to the UN Security Council...
And that'll probably be the end of it.

KJI just got back from China a few days ago, and immediately after, China issued a statement saying that they wanted to see an independent investigation before reacting officially. Hell, the current investigation has S Korean, US, Australian and experts from "other countries". If that's good enough for China, they may take some unilateral action, which I think would be far more effective than anything the UN could/would do.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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Re: Israel accuses DPRK of shipping WMD to Syria

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed May 19, 2010 2:53 pm

Ian wrote:
FBM wrote:Ooops.
Well, whaddya know? :ask: :shifty:
And I heard on NPR this morning that the ROK is probably going to refer the matter to the UN Security Council...

It would seem they have grounds for defensive military action with or without UN Security Council approval. If it's true the DPRK sunk that ship, then I hope it is not just swept under the rug. It's time for the beastly DPRK regime to go, and for its people to breathe free air.

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Re: Israel accuses DPRK of shipping WMD to Syria

Post by Ian » Wed May 19, 2010 3:48 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Ian wrote:
FBM wrote:Ooops.
Well, whaddya know? :ask: :shifty:
And I heard on NPR this morning that the ROK is probably going to refer the matter to the UN Security Council...

It would seem they have grounds for defensive military action with or without UN Security Council approval. If it's true the DPRK sunk that ship, then I hope it is not just swept under the rug. It's time for the beastly DPRK regime to go, and for its people to breathe free air.
I agree. I also don't think it's much of a coincidence that Ban Ki-Moon is the latest UN Secretary General. North Korea is surrounded by some very important world players, none of whom really look at the world with the old Cold War mentality of bipolarism, and they're getting really sick of having to deal with Pyongyang.

I doubt South Korea or anybody else will do any sort of overt military reprisal; they're too worried about escalation. China's reaction, whatever it is, will be the most potent. But another worry is North Korea's reaction: they could very well put themselves onto a heightened state of alert because they're feeling defensive over this, which could instigate another incident.

Ultimately, who knows what's going to happen? North Korea is arguably the least predictable regime on earth.

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Re: Israel accuses DPRK of shipping WMD to Syria

Post by Toontown » Wed May 19, 2010 11:40 pm

Feck wrote:If I lived next to Israel I would want some WMD's ...
Why? would you want to make damn sure Israel attacks you? That seems to be the typical mindset of Israel-haters.

BTW, you wouldn't feel the need for useless bomb-magnets if you could resist the urge to keep attacking the joos.

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