A new government - the first realities

[Rum]

My job involves putting government policy into practice in my county. As it happens because I am of the left persuasion I was mostly, though not always, more or less happy doing so. And today I went to a much visited web site to get updates and advice on some of the agendas I deal with only to find this at http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/rsgateway/index.shtml

"A new UK Government took office on 11 May. As a result the content on this site may not reflect current Government policy. All statutory guidance and legislation published on this site continues to reflect the current legal position unless indicated otherwise. To view the new Department for Education website, please go to http://www.education.gov.uk"

Kind of brings it home.

[Deep Sea Isopod]

"Children's workforce"
"Early years workforce"
"Schools workforce"

So, can we put them back up the chimneys again?

[Clinton Huxley]

"Children's workforce"
"Early years workforce"
"Schools workforce"

So, can we put them back up the chimneys again?

By golly, let us hope so! I hear the little monkeys can come in useful in the cotton mills, too.

[floppit]

'Scuse the derail...

I'm seriously pro child labour. I very much hope my daughter will begin work around 11ish in return for something (pay, rides, experience) that produces a sense of duty to work hard. I think we treat kids weirdly, separate them off socially, herd them into groups by age (around one year difference at best), treat them as a different species - none of which is fundamentally necessary. Work mixes the age groups and begins an important point of childhood, to learn from the experience of adults. It also begins a process of being respected, something fairly easily achieved when someone is known to work hard.

Back on topic - I have every intention of sticking my head in the sand re the new Government. Despite my best efforts I suspect I'll have all I can manage to fight over through work so I'm not looking for extra!

[Trolldor]

What? Child labour? Are you serious?

Yes, let's send them all in to factories at 11. Nothing like a young'un at the helm of heavy machinery just like the good old days.
A child already performs and works, at school and in social settings. At 11 they need to be taught to look both ways before crossing the road and to wash their hands after they go to the toilet. At 21 most of them still can't manage those.

[owtth]

What? Child labour? Are you serious?

Yes, let's send them all in to factories at 11. Nothing like a young'un at the helm of heavy machinery just like the good old days.
A child already performs and works, at school and in social settings. At 11 they need to be taught to look both ways before crossing the road and to wash their hands after they go to the toilet. At 21 most of them still can't manage those.

Not putting words in Floppit's mouth, but I presume a little part time job is being referred to, I got my first weekend job at 12, enjoyed it and relished the few quid in my pocket.

[Trolldor]

Children can do chores around the house, or for friends or neighbours, putting them in to the workforce is a bad idea. There's a reason they stopped it.

[Pappa]

What? Child labour? Are you serious?

Yes, let's send them all in to factories at 11. Nothing like a young'un at the helm of heavy machinery just like the good old days.
A child already performs and works, at school and in social settings. At 11 they need to be taught to look both ways before crossing the road and to wash their hands after they go to the toilet. At 21 most of them still can't manage those.

Not putting words in Floppit's mouth, but I presume a little part time job is being referred to, I got my first weekend job at 12, enjoyed it and relished the few quid in my pocket.

I worked from about 9 or 10. I did a paper round with my brother. Then at 12 (the minimum age here I think), I did a paper round on my own, then 2 rounds, then 3 rounds. At 14 or 15 I got a Saturday job as trolley-boy, carrying luggage for holiday makers on a Butlins style holiday camp. For that I didn't even get a wage, it was tips only.

I enjoyed it, the paper rounds also gave me a load of exercise I wouldn't otherwise have had and the money was handy too.

I was more than capable of crossing roads and washing my hands long before I was 11.

[Deep Sea Isopod]

At 11 they need to be taught to look both ways before crossing the road and to wash their hands after they go to the toilet.

Reminds me of this story. Dunno if it's true or not.......

Young man (seeing Churchill leaving the bathroom without washing his hands): "At Eton they taught us to wash our hands after using the toilet."
Churchill: "At Harrow they taught us not to piss on our hands."

[JimC]

Children can do chores around the house, or for friends or neighbours, putting them in to the workforce is a bad idea. There's a reason they stopped it.

Putting them in the workforce without a damned good set of protective legislation is the bad idea. Unions and other reformers have fought tooth and nail over the years to combat the exploitation of children (at least in Western society), but we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Depending on the circumstances and the child, both chores at home and a certain amount of paid work later is valuable in many ways.

[Link]

What? Child labour? Are you serious?

Yes, let's send them all in to factories at 11. Nothing like a young'un at the helm of heavy machinery just like the good old days.
A child already performs and works, at school and in social settings. At 11 they need to be taught to look both ways before crossing the road and to wash their hands after they go to the toilet. At 21 most of them still can't manage those.

I didn't see Floppit mention factories??

I got a job at 11, granted it was only a paper round but it certainly instilled a sense of, If you want money you earn it whereas my brother was allowed to sit around until he was 18 before getting his first job and as a consequence became a lazy little bastard!

Other than this factor we were brought up exactly the same so in my personal experience it is a good thing to get kids learning the value of money early on.

[Loki_999]

'Scuse the derail...

I'm seriously pro child labour. I very much hope my daughter will begin work around 11ish in return for something (pay, rides, experience) that produces a sense of duty to work hard. I think we treat kids weirdly, separate them off socially, herd them into groups by age (around one year difference at best), treat them as a different species - none of which is fundamentally necessary. Work mixes the age groups and begins an important point of childhood, to learn from the experience of adults. It also begins a process of being respected, something fairly easily achieved when someone is known to work hard.

Back on topic - I have every intention of sticking my head in the sand re the new Government. Despite my best efforts I suspect I'll have all I can manage to fight over through work so I'm not looking for extra!

My dad was like that. Basically I got a minimal amount of pocket money and if i wanted more i had to wash the car, help out in the garden, etc. I also had a saturday job and paper round.

Put me off work for life.

Childhood is a time for enjoyment not work. Once you leave school that is it, your innocence about work is destroyed and you are stuck with it until you hit pension age. Let the kids enjoy their childhood.

PS: What has working to do with respect? You earn respect through your actions not the situation.

[floppit]

Yes - I am serious. Of course I'm not talking about 80 hours a week labour! (Numbnut!). I worked from about 8 every saturday morning frying bacon and sausages! From 12 working for rides, from 14 selling shoes and waitressing, by 16 it was 70+ hours a week labour. That bought me my dreams, 2 of my lifelong friends, my self respect, and memories of something a shit ton richer than the Sat am cartoon show!

When I worked with horses we'd always have 'Saturday help' kids from 13 yrs up keen to learn and worked hard. They would do a full days labour for about an hour sat on a horse taught by me - they rarely missed a weekend because they loved it. I remember a lass who was always shit scared, one day I pulled off her stirrups, unhitched the reins, shut the gate and told her till she could sit on a horse and do nothing I couldn't teach her jack shit about doing something. Once we had the horse through all paces and she had learned to not be deathly afraid of losing control we could start where we should have been a year before. No riding school could or would do that in the UK.

Work is different and shouldn't be denied to kids - plenty of them want it.

[Twoflower]

I helped my grandpa out in his huge garden from age 10 or so. It was a lot of fun and I learned a lot about gardening and the outdoors. I was paid in him teaching me about nature and taking me on tracking adventures in the woods when we were done. Also spending time with him was priceless. I worked for my parents from a young age as well then got a full time job while in high school and now have a part time job while at uni.