response to emerging independent science on the 9/11 attacks

[Feck]

[Razor]

Well I couldn't be certain Rasputin, but possibly it's something to do with the fact that all the evidence supports that conclusion and the various CT's have nothing more than a steaming pile of asserted bullshit?

Just my best guess...

There are quite a few barefaced lies, in this thread, presented as evidence. Even when called on it, whackaloons will just ignore it.

Indeed. Reality is too frightening for some it seems.

[charlou]

Wibble.

[Coito ergo sum]

Now I'm not sure about this one......But on what floor were these charges placed that were used in the controlled demolition ?
There was no sign of them on any of the video I would have thought that the windows would have blown out if demolition charges were detonated of enough size to blast out the core steel work ? And Thermite would have shown up as a Massive out rush of hot air ,and therefore smoke ?
The towers seemed to collapse from the area damaged by the planes ? Just how would you wire and set charges to do this ?
They spend days in preparation work to drop a building. This was all done in secret with no trace and nobody saw anything ???

Pshawww....he doesn't have to come up with his own explanation, he just has to "cast doubt" on the "official version" and then conclude "controlled demolition is the most likely alternative."

That's correct: If we see a 'miracle' we don't have to be able to explain how it was done.

Well, of course you do. I mean, Creationists and other religionists don't. But, calling something a "miracle" without an explanation for how it is done is merely to say that something happened about which you are personally incredulous.

If we don't know how it was done, we can still assert that it was done by a technology we are unaware of.

You can assert whatever you like. However, there's no reason to accept your assertion without proof. What is offered without proof may be dismissed without proof.

Be that as it may. There's lots of analysis showing the squibs from windows as the building began it descent.

No, there isn't. Calling it a "squib" assumes the truth of the matter asserted, that there was an explosive involved. What the videos show are some puffs which are consistent with outward ejection of matter due to the downward exertion of pressure exerted by the falling mass of the building. Nothing about them looks like the detonation of explosive material.

The squibs are too energetic to be air-pumping expulsion,

Really? Let me see your calculations of the energy level of the puffs, and what would have been expected given the mass of the buildings. I.e. show me how you've determined that they are "too energetic."

which would anyway have been directed up through the broken upper floors. The ejecta are just as profuse at initiation as at completion.
If charges were used, they would not have been wired up, they would have been radio controlled.

They would have been? Evidence? Or, do you mean - "could conceivably" have been?

Yes, the preparation would have taken several weeks at least. But it would NOT have been done in secret. There is substantial witness & documented testimony that it was done in public, though behind closed doors, by credentialed 'maintenance teams'.

There is? Link to that specific evidence please.

There is no reason to assume that team members would break silence. There's lots of devotees who'd even do that for free. For example, examine your role in all this; aren't you perpetuating the official mythology?

No, I'm not perpetuating anything. I'm rejecting assertions that are not supported by evidence.

In ancient Egypt, it is said that the main designers of security devices in the pyramids (tombs) were put to death at the time of the internment of the pharaoh. Maybe, or maybe not. But the concept is intriguing.

Intriguing to whom? I've been aware of historical information concerning the ancient Egyptian practice of putting to death certain persons who knew how to get to the pharaoh's tomb since I had a thing for Egyptian history when I was 11. You don't think it at all odd that you find it at all relevant to the issue at hand? You seem to think that because the ancient Egyptians killed workers on the pyramids, that maybe the same practice was used today? Well, they also used slave labor to build the pyramids - is that intriguing? Maybe the same practice was used on 9/11 - and slaves were conscripted to carry it out? The Old Norse used to raid European villages and steal people to keep and sell as slaves and take women to keep as wives. Maybe the 9/11 conspirators did that too?

There have been some whistleblowers, but they've been ignored.

Names please, so we can verify.

But the biggest whistleblower is Nature itself: The collapse was contrary to the laws of physics & principles of structural engineering. That's all I need, nothing more.

No, the collapse was completely consistent with the laws of physics, and nothing at all like a controlled demolition (except in the most superficial sense of a building falling downward and collapsing when it collapses.

Let's look at it this way: what law of physics was broken and how do you know? What principles of structural engineering was broken or violated, and how do you know? If there are too many to discuss in one post, just give me your best one. The real zinger. The one that tops them all.

[Coito ergo sum]

Now I'm not sure about this one......But on what floor were these charges placed that were used in the controlled demolition ?
There was no sign of them on any of the video I would have thought that the windows would have blown out if demolition charges were detonated of enough size to blast out the core steel work ? And Thermite would have shown up as a Massive out rush of hot air ,and therefore smoke ?
The towers seemed to collapse from the area damaged by the planes ? Just how would you wire and set charges to do this ?
They spend days in preparation work to drop a building. This was all done in secret with no trace and nobody saw anything ???

Pshawww....he doesn't have to come up with his own explanation, he just has to "cast doubt" on the "official version" and then conclude "controlled demolition is the most likely alternative."

That's correct: If we see a 'miracle' we don't have to be able to explain how it was done. If we don't know how it was done, we can still assert that it was done by a technology we are unaware of.
Be that as it may. There's lots of analysis showing the squibs from windows as the building began it descent. The squibs are too energetic to be air-pumping expulsion, which would anyway have been directed up through the broken upper floors. The ejecta are just as profuse at initiation as at completion.
If charges were used, they would not have been wired up, they would have been radio controlled.
Yes, the preparation would have taken several weeks at least. But it would NOT have been done in secret. There is substantial witness & documented testimony that it was done in public, though behind closed doors, by credentialed 'maintenance teams'.
There is no reason to assume that team members would break silence. There's lots of devotees who'd even do that for free. For example, examine your role in all this; aren't you perpetuating the official mythology?
In ancient Egypt, it is said that the main designers of security devices in the pyramids (tombs) were put to death at the time of the internment of the pharaoh. Maybe, or maybe not. But the concept is intriguing.
There have been some whistleblowers, but they've been ignored. But the biggest whistleblower is Nature itself: The collapse was contrary to the laws of physics & principles of structural engineering. That's all I need, nothing more.

I want to stress what Galaxian has admitted here. He said the following was correct - he has no proof that it was a controlled demoltion:

All he thinks he does is "cast doubt" on the "official version" and then conclude "controlled demolition is the most likely alternative."

That's a glaring admission on his part.

[Trolldor]

In ancient Egypt, it is said that the main designers of security devices in the pyramids (tombs) were put to death at the time of the internment of the pharaoh. Maybe, or maybe not. But the concept is intriguing.

No designer of any 'security device' in the pyramids were put to death. Why? Because there weren't any security devices in the first place!! The concept of little green men building the pyramid is also intriguing, but until you have some actual evidence instead of innuendo and dodgy anecdotes , it's going to get laughed at like every other bit of CT wankery.

Not entirely true. There's a lot of psycological mindfuckery in going down a tunnel only slightly larger than shoulder-width in the pitch black.

[BlackBart]

In ancient Egypt, it is said that the main designers of security devices in the pyramids (tombs) were put to death at the time of the internment of the pharaoh. Maybe, or maybe not. But the concept is intriguing.

No designer of any 'security device' in the pyramids were put to death. Why? Because there weren't any security devices in the first place!! The concept of little green men building the pyramid is also intriguing, but until you have some actual evidence instead of innuendo and dodgy anecdotes , it's going to get laughed at like every other bit of CT wankery.

Not entirely true. There's a lot of psycological mindfuckery in going down a tunnel only slightly larger than shoulder-width in the pitch black.

LOL. Fair point. Been there done that - it's scary as fuck.

[Coito ergo sum]

In ancient Egypt, it is said that the main designers of security devices in the pyramids (tombs) were put to death at the time of the internment of the pharaoh. Maybe, or maybe not. But the concept is intriguing.

No designer of any 'security device' in the pyramids were put to death. Why? Because there weren't any security devices in the first place!! The concept of little green men building the pyramid is also intriguing, but until you have some actual evidence instead of innuendo and dodgy anecdotes , it's going to get laughed at like every other bit of CT wankery.

Not entirely true. There's a lot of psycological mindfuckery in going down a tunnel only slightly larger than shoulder-width in the pitch black.

LOL. Fair point. Been there done that - it's scary as fuck.

There is almost nothing I can think of that I would like to do less than be in a place where I cannot turn around, and where there is no light. I think about that and just the thought of it gives me a visceral reaction of revulsion and fear, like waking up in a box that you can't get out of. It's easier and less disturbing to imagine myself drowning or being set on fire.

[traditionaldrummer]

Oh no. There are actually 911 conspiracy theorists here? On a site with "rational" in its root name? This is a bit hard to believe....

[Coito ergo sum]

Oh no. There are actually 911 conspiracy theorists here? On a site with "rational" in its root name? This is a bit hard to believe....

Under the dialectic method and dualism, without irrationality we can't see the rational.

[BlackBart]

In ancient Egypt, it is said that the main designers of security devices in the pyramids (tombs) were put to death at the time of the internment of the pharaoh. Maybe, or maybe not. But the concept is intriguing.

No designer of any 'security device' in the pyramids were put to death. Why? Because there weren't any security devices in the first place!! The concept of little green men building the pyramid is also intriguing, but until you have some actual evidence instead of innuendo and dodgy anecdotes , it's going to get laughed at like every other bit of CT wankery.

Not entirely true. There's a lot of psycological mindfuckery in going down a tunnel only slightly larger than shoulder-width in the pitch black.

LOL. Fair point. Been there done that - it's scary as fuck.

There is almost nothing I can think of that I would like to do less than be in a place where I cannot turn around, and where there is no light. I think about that and just the thought of it gives me a visceral reaction of revulsion and fear, like waking up in a box that you can't get out of. It's easier and less disturbing to imagine myself drowning or being set on fire.

I have to admit I nearly lost it in the Pyramid of Khafre - the 10m entrance tunnel is about a meter high and slopes about 25 degrees, so it feels like you're going to fall head long to the darkness as you shuffle down. Add to that, it's stiflingly hot and there's a load more tourists behind you so you can't get out, one of whom was panicking loudly...it's a relief to get to the main chamber, I can tell you!

[owtth]

This is a bit hard to believe....

Try reading some of his posts, it gets harder.

[Hermit]

Oh no. There are actually 911 conspiracy theorists here? On a site with "rational" in its root name? This is a bit hard to believe....

We can't really kick people out because we disagree with their opinions, can we?

Galaxian played the same tune in the "Oasis of Clear Thinking", by the way. I bet, like almost any other person on earth he would reply to both the following questions in the affirmative: "Are you rational?" "Are you a clear thinker?"

[Galaxian]

Well, of course you do. I mean, Creationists and other religionists don't. But, calling something a "miracle" without an explanation for how it is done is merely to say that something happened about which you are personally incredulous.

If we don't know how it was done, we can still assert that it was done by a technology we are unaware of.

You can assert whatever you like. However, there's no reason to accept your assertion without proof. What is offered without proof may be dismissed without proof.

Be that as it may. There's lots of analysis showing the squibs from windows as the building began it descent.

No, there isn't. Calling it a "squib" assumes the truth of the matter asserted, that there was an explosive involved. What the videos show are some puffs which are consistent with outward ejection of matter due to the downward exertion of pressure exerted by the falling mass of the building. Nothing about them looks like the detonation of explosive material.

The squibs are too energetic to be air-pumping expulsion,

Really? Let me see your calculations of the energy level of the puffs, and what would have been expected given the mass of the buildings. I.e. show me how you've determined that they are "too energetic.

which would anyway have been directed up through the broken upper floors. The ejecta are just as profuse at initiation as at completion.
If charges were used, they would not have been wired up, they would have been radio controlled.

They would have been? Evidence? Or, do you mean - "could conceivably" have been?

Yes, the preparation would have taken several weeks at least. But it would NOT have been done in secret. There is substantial witness & documented testimony that it was done in public, though behind closed doors, by credentialed 'maintenance teams'.

There is? Link to that specific evidence please.
.......

There have been some whistleblowers, but they've been ignored.

Names please, so we can verify.

But the biggest whistleblower is Nature itself: The collapse was contrary to the laws of physics & principles of structural engineering. That's all I need, nothing more.

Well, I totally doubt that you've visited many sites dealing with 9/11 from the skeptics POV. I think you've been to a few sites that wheeled out the official storyline, & from there you decided that's enough for you.
I know this from your repeated hollow requests for references for widely known information. It is as if you ask for references for the heliocentric theory. If you, or anyone else asks me for links to the heliocentric theory I'd just laugh in your face & say "find it yourself!"
Well, that's my response to your silly questions: "Find them yourself, I can't be arsed doing your research for you, when you're obviously not even interested in finding out the truth for yourself. Even elementary stuff, such as the velocity of the ejecta is beyond your ken. The reason is because you're simply cosy in your ga-ga land, reminiscent of the Louis Armstrong song "It's a wonderful world". Maybe when your feet are held to the fire you'll realize that the world is not all peaches & cream....not even for Americans.
BTW, that goes for the rest of you too. So stew in your back-slappin' company till the rude awakening!
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" Arthur C. Clarke

[traditionaldrummer]

We can't really kick people out because we disagree with their opinions, can we?

Absolutely not, and I hope nobody thought that was what I was implying. I simply found it a bit odd. I would never ban someone from a forum or deny anyone the right to express their opinions simply because I didn't care for them. I simply have never seen much of a rational case presented for any of the various 911 conspiracy theories.