The UK election thread

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Re: The UK election thread

Post by klr » Tue May 11, 2010 9:53 am

Pappa wrote:
Elessarina wrote:And the public voted that they don't want Gordon Brown as Prime Minister anymore. the Conservatives won the election not by a clear majority but they won it. If a Lib-Lab coalition is formed it will still be a minority government and that will make a joke of this whole country's electoral system because on that basis the Conservatives should be given the option to form a minority government.. Brown may as well change his name to Mugabe
The public also voted that they don't want David Cameron as PM too.
Correct. Just 36% voted for him and his party, on a platform of single-party government. More than that, for the Conservatives to enter coalition now would be against the wishes and expectations of a significant proportion of their own voters.

There are very few absolutes in this situation. I dislike the terms "won" and "lost" being used with such black/white connotations. Much of what has happened here is relative. And it will become the norm if/when a proper form of PR is ever introduced.

Well, the first thing I want to say is..."Mandate my ass!" Because it seems as though we've been convinced that 26% of the registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% of the registered voters form a mandate – or a landslide. = Gil Scott-Heron, "B-Movie"
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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Elessarina » Tue May 11, 2010 9:56 am

Pappa wrote: The public also voted that they don't want David Cameron as PM too.

FFS yes I know that! But they voted for Brown/Labour even fucking less. If you want to say that then you have to agree that the person with the MOST right to try to form a government is David Cameron

You can carry on forever with this argument.. looks at votes in 2005.. more people voted against Labour than for it.. blah blah.. but we go with seats in the house and majority government. So we don't have a majority government but surely the party with the most seats should have a crack at power?

If Labour remain in power after this election then how is this country any better than a dictatorship?

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Re: The UK election thread

Post by JimC » Tue May 11, 2010 9:59 am

The simple truth is that the UK is currently a house divided...

You need someone to declare war on you to produce that delicious sense of unity, and nostalgic sighs for the bliz...
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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Feck » Tue May 11, 2010 10:04 am

If there is a hung Parliament the sitting PrimeMinister has the first chance to form a government . Mentions of Mugabe and cries of dictatorship don't change this .
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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Pappa » Tue May 11, 2010 10:09 am

Elessarina wrote:
Pappa wrote: The public also voted that they don't want David Cameron as PM too.

FFS yes I know that! But they voted for Brown/Labour even fucking less. If you want to say that then you have to agree that the person with the MOST right to try to form a government is David Cameron

You can carry on forever with this argument.. looks at votes in 2005.. more people voted against Labour than for it.. blah blah.. but we go with seats in the house and majority government. So we don't have a majority government but surely the party with the most seats should have a crack at power?

If Labour remain in power after this election then how is this country any better than a dictatorship?
If Labour formed a coalition with Lib Dems, it wouldn't be a Labour government, it would be a Labour-Lib Dem government.

David Cameron doesn't have the most right to form a government. In a hung parliament situation it's whoever can form a coalition with a majority. There's good reason for that. The majority then represents the views of the people. Plus, by convention, the current PM gets first dibs.

Think of it another way. There are centrist Tory MPs and right-wing Tory MPs (and some lefties too I suppose). Between them they have 306 seats.

That's not greatly different (from a purely electoral perspective) to Labour and Lib-Dem having 315 seats between them.
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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Elessarina » Tue May 11, 2010 10:12 am

Feck wrote:If there is a hung Parliament the sitting PrimeMinister has the first chance to form a government . Mentions of Mugabe and cries of dictatorship don't change this .

I am aware of this. But does no one think that brown and his desire for power is unsettling, not to mention that he has surrounded himself by unelected bods.

Surely everyone must know about his rants at Blair how he demanded to be given the job of Prime Minister.

Does no one find this unsettling?

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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Feck » Tue May 11, 2010 10:15 am

Elessarina wrote:
Feck wrote:If there is a hung Parliament the sitting PrimeMinister has the first chance to form a government . Mentions of Mugabe and cries of dictatorship don't change this .

I am aware of this. But does no one think that brown and his desire for power is unsettling, not to mention that he has surrounded himself by unelected bods.

Surely everyone must know about his rants at Blair how he demanded to be given the job of Prime Minister.

Does no one find this unsettling?
I find Everything about politiks disturbing especially the Party system and first past the post system . :ddpan:
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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Pappa » Tue May 11, 2010 10:15 am

Elessarina wrote:
Feck wrote:If there is a hung Parliament the sitting PrimeMinister has the first chance to form a government . Mentions of Mugabe and cries of dictatorship don't change this .

I am aware of this. But does no one think that brown and his desire for power is unsettling, not to mention that he has surrounded himself by unelected bods.

Surely everyone must know about his rants at Blair how he demanded to be given the job of Prime Minister.

Does no one find this unsettling?
Hasn't he said he's stepping down by September?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/ ... 672859.stm
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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Elessarina » Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 am

The whole debacle is going on too long and I am really concerned about what is going to happen. Labour have spent more money than they had, used stealth taxes and run us into debt. I don't trust they can get us out of this crisis.

The rich poor divide has increased under labour, the rich have got richer( the top 1% 4x richer), the benefits payouts have increased. The country has gone insane: binge drinking, happy slapping, we had the foot and mouth crisis, bailing the banks out and then letting them pay bonuses, petrol prices going up, dropping VAT but adding stealth taxes on fuel which weren't repealed when VAT rose again, the costs of elelctricity and gas increased and not capped by the government, immigrants coming into this "soft touch" country, NHS waiting lists have increased under Labour (and MRSA). Not to forget we're the CCTV nation and ID cards yet another way for Big Brother to watch us. Speeding fines have increased..

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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Pappa » Tue May 11, 2010 10:40 am

Elessarina wrote:The whole debacle is going on too long and I am really concerned about what is going to happen. Labour have spent more money than they had, used stealth taxes and run us into debt. I don't trust they can get us out of this crisis.

The rich poor divide has increased under labour, the rich have got richer( the top 1% 4x richer), the benefits payouts have increased. The country has gone insane: binge drinking, happy slapping, we had the foot and mouth crisis, bailing the banks out and then letting them pay bonuses, petrol prices going up, dropping VAT but adding stealth taxes on fuel which weren't repealed when VAT rose again, the costs of elelctricity and gas increased and not capped by the government, immigrants coming into this "soft touch" country, NHS waiting lists have increased under Labour (and MRSA). Not to forget we're the CCTV nation and ID cards yet another way for Big Brother to watch us. Speeding fines have increased..
Do you mean the coalition talks?

After the Welsh Assembly elections in 2007 it took over 3 weeks for the coalition talks to complete. I don't see the need to rush things. I'd rather they do it properly, whoever forms a coalition.
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Re: The UK election thread

Post by klr » Tue May 11, 2010 10:44 am

Pappa wrote:
Elessarina wrote:The whole debacle is going on too long and I am really concerned about what is going to happen. Labour have spent more money than they had, used stealth taxes and run us into debt. I don't trust they can get us out of this crisis.

The rich poor divide has increased under labour, the rich have got richer( the top 1% 4x richer), the benefits payouts have increased. The country has gone insane: binge drinking, happy slapping, we had the foot and mouth crisis, bailing the banks out and then letting them pay bonuses, petrol prices going up, dropping VAT but adding stealth taxes on fuel which weren't repealed when VAT rose again, the costs of elelctricity and gas increased and not capped by the government, immigrants coming into this "soft touch" country, NHS waiting lists have increased under Labour (and MRSA). Not to forget we're the CCTV nation and ID cards yet another way for Big Brother to watch us. Speeding fines have increased..
Do you mean the coalition talks?

After the Welsh Assembly elections in 2007 it took over 3 weeks for the coalition talks to complete.
Quite. Expecting an agreement to be concluded in just a few days is rather unrealistic IMHO, especially given the facts on the ground in terms of fundamental policy differences and/or the "numbers game". If parties had been proactive before the election about what common ground existed between them, and what possible arrangements they would/would not enter into afterwards (and on what broad terms), then things might have progressed a bit more quickly.
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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Elessarina » Tue May 11, 2010 10:47 am

I'm just stressed about it.. I don't know what the answer is.. but I am unsure right now if the "better the devil you know" approach is really going to be that. I'm scared of what will happen. But my concerns are not for selfish reasons.. under Labour I will have a job under the Conservatives I won't. But I am more concerned that things are done to rectify our economy and improve the country, stop immigration and so on than I am about my own future.

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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Elessarina » Tue May 11, 2010 10:50 am

A coalition with Lib-Lab would have to bring in further parties to hold the country to ransom as well...

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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Pappa » Tue May 11, 2010 10:54 am

Elessarina wrote:I'm just stressed about it.. I don't know what the answer is.. but I am unsure right now if the "better the devil you know" approach is really going to be that. I'm scared of what will happen. But my concerns are not for selfish reasons.. under Labour I will have a job under the Conservatives I won't. But I am more concerned that things are done to rectify our economy and improve the country, stop immigration and so on than I am about my own future.
Don't panic El. Just let politics take it's course and worry about the outcome (if appropriate) when it happens.

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Re: The UK election thread

Post by Pappa » Tue May 11, 2010 10:55 am

Elessarina wrote:A coalition with Lib-Lab would have to bring in further parties to hold the country to ransom as well...
It's not ransom. It's just asking for support on specific policies in exchange for support on others. It's compromise.
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