The UK election thread

[RuleBritannia]

I think they need to start teaching politics at school because there are too many morons who don't understand how our system works. And amazingly it seems to be the Conservatives, right-wing press and Tory supporters (the people who are supposedly the biggest fans of our system and don't want to change it), whom seem to be most clueless about it. We do not elect the Prime Minister.

[klr]

I see Michael Gove has just been on the BBC again. I suppose that should be no surprise, as he's easily (for my money) the most honest and straightforward Conservative politician around.

[JimC]

I think they need to start teaching politics at school because there are too many morons who don't understand how our system works. And amazingly it seems to be the Conservatives, right-wing press and Tory supporters (the people who are supposedly the biggest fans of our system and don't want to change it), whom seem to be most clueless about it. We do not elect the Prime Minister.

Which is not to say he is unelected...

[RuleBritannia]

I think they need to start teaching politics at school because there are too many morons who don't understand how our system works. And amazingly it seems to be the Conservatives, right-wing press and Tory supporters (the people who are supposedly the biggest fans of our system and don't want to change it), whom seem to be most clueless about it. We do not elect the Prime Minister.

Which is not to say he is unelected...

But Gordon Brown is elected. He won his constituency, Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath with 29,559 (64.5%) votes.

The whole "unelected" thing is a red herring, no one was up in arms when Major or Churchill did the same.

[klr]

I think they need to start teaching politics at school because there are too many morons who don't understand how our system works. And amazingly it seems to be the Conservatives, right-wing press and Tory supporters (the people who are supposedly the biggest fans of our system and don't want to change it), whom seem to be most clueless about it. We do not elect the Prime Minister.

Which is not to say he is unelected...

I think people have a (reasonable) expectation that the leaders of the various parties are known in advance, since a leader is always going to put their own personal stamp on things. But that doesn't mean (IMHO) that you can't change the leadership of a ruling/government party and be forced somehow to go back to the electorate.

[RuleBritannia]

I think they need to start teaching politics at school because there are too many morons who don't understand how our system works. And amazingly it seems to be the Conservatives, right-wing press and Tory supporters (the people who are supposedly the biggest fans of our system and don't want to change it), whom seem to be most clueless about it. We do not elect the Prime Minister.

Which is not to say he is unelected...

I think people have a (reasonable) expectation that the leaders of the various parties are known in advance, since a leader is always going to put their own personal stamp on things. But that doesn't mean (IMHO) that you can't change the leadership of a ruling/government party and be forced somehow to go back to the electorate.

It's the ultimate contradiction. The people that say you should vote for policies not personality, but also claim that we didn't vote for our Prime Minister, are idiots.

[klr]

I think they need to start teaching politics at school because there are too many morons who don't understand how our system works. And amazingly it seems to be the Conservatives, right-wing press and Tory supporters (the people who are supposedly the biggest fans of our system and don't want to change it), whom seem to be most clueless about it. We do not elect the Prime Minister.

Which is not to say he is unelected...

I think people have a (reasonable) expectation that the leaders of the various parties are known in advance, since a leader is always going to put their own personal stamp on things. But that doesn't mean (IMHO) that you can't change the leadership of a ruling/government party and be forced somehow to go back to the electorate.

It's the ultimate contradiction. The people that say you should vote for policies not personality, but also claim that we didn't vote for our Prime Minister, are idiots.

I've had that very thought myself over the past couple of days. To me the question of who leads a party is only important in the context of what it means for the overall policies of the party and how stable it is, etc. Who that is is not really too important to me in of itself.

[RuleBritannia]

[Rum]

That's a bit of an ingenuous approach don't you think? Our system is about the leader of the party with the most seats becoming the PM. It is only with the rise of a more Presidential approach and the cult of the personality, so deeply encouraged by the simple minded approach of mass media, that the perception arises that a PM has less of a democratic mandate. The PM is not the head of state as say the US president is. In theory he/she is chair of the cabinet decision making body which runs the country. Tony Blair eroded that approach enormously of course.

[JimC]

I think they need to start teaching politics at school because there are too many morons who don't understand how our system works. And amazingly it seems to be the Conservatives, right-wing press and Tory supporters (the people who are supposedly the biggest fans of our system and don't want to change it), whom seem to be most clueless about it. We do not elect the Prime Minister.

Which is not to say he is unelected...

But Gordon Brown is elected. He won his constituency, Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath with 29,559 (64.5%) votes.

The whole "unelected" thing is a red herring, no one was up in arms when Major or Churchill did the same.

If you deconstruct my somewhat clumsy double negative, you will find I am agreeing with you.

In the Westminster system, the "we" is, technically, only the constituents of the PM's own electorate (usually a very safe one, mind you...)

The reality, of course, is that the public perception of a party leader and prospective PM flows through to an extent to overall voting patterns, in a melange including party policies, media spin and the popularity/unpopularity of local members...

Thus giving rise to a certain amount of angst in some voters if the primary reason for their vote was a personal preference for a certain PM, who then resigns/is dumped by party room in-fighting...

[Elessarina]

That is irrelevant yes he won his seat what is more relevant is that his party did not win the most seats.

[Rum]

That is irrelevant yes he won his seat what is more relevant is that his party did not win the most seats.

I'm not sure it is quite irrelevant. To slightly contradict my post above, the public obviously do look to the leader of a party and consider whether he or she would make a good PM. It has figured as a factor increasingly over the years due to the 'presidential' factor. Blair was expected to be PM, but the public never voted for a government led by Brown.

Technically and constitutionally that is just fine, but in terms of credibility rather less so I would argue.

[Elessarina]

That is irrelevant yes he won his seat what is more relevant is that his party did not win the most seats.

I'm not sure it is quite irrelevant. To slightly contradict my post above, the public obviously do look to the leader of a party and consider whether he or she would make a good PM. It has figured as a factor increasingly over the years due to the 'presidential' factor. Blair was expected to be PM, but the public never voted for a government led by Brown.

Technically and constitutionally that is just fine, but in terms of credibility rather less so I would argue.

And the public voted that they don't want Gordon Brown as Prime Minister anymore. the Conservatives won the election not by a clear majority but they won it. If a Lib-Lab coalition is formed it will still be a minority government and that will make a joke of this whole country's electoral system because on that basis the Conservatives should be given the option to form a minority government.. Brown may as well change his name to Mugabe

[Elessarina]

If it was the other way around and labour had 306 and the Conservatives 258 no one would be even considering the conservatives taking power. Labour LOST the election The Conservatives got the majority of the seats.. yes it may be aflawed voting system but it's the voting system that has elected labour for the last three terms as well. everyone seems to want to change the goal posts now things don't suit them. I'm happy for electoral reform to be considered but do we want this situation every 5 years?

We now have Nick Clegg holding this country to ransom to get his way and Brown clinging onto power for as long as he can.

Tbh if I was Cameron I'd walk away.. he'll have the last laugh because Labour are either going to plunge this country into the worst economic crisis it has ever known or have to raise taxes, VAT etc to get us out of debt and stop our international credit rating falling and interest rates increasing etc.

[Pappa]

And the public voted that they don't want Gordon Brown as Prime Minister anymore. the Conservatives won the election not by a clear majority but they won it. If a Lib-Lab coalition is formed it will still be a minority government and that will make a joke of this whole country's electoral system because on that basis the Conservatives should be given the option to form a minority government.. Brown may as well change his name to Mugabe

The public also voted that they don't want David Cameron as PM too.