I guess it's "certain people have a right not to be offended about certain things."Gawdzilla wrote:Now where did I read "Nobody has the right to not be offended"?
High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shirts
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
well, perhaps "taunting" was an ill-advised word - what I was thinking of when I used that word was more like harassing or bullying. I fully acknowledge that schools have to restrict speech in much the same way an employer has to restrict speech.Gawdzilla wrote:Taunting should be banned. Let's start with pep rallies and cheers at football games.Coito ergo sum wrote:Sure, but your assumption is that they were taunting. Wearing an Old Navy t-shirt with an American flag on it is not taunting. Now, if they were doing other things, or saying other things, that were taunts to other kids, then school administrators should step in.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
Even if the kids wearing the flag were being dicks about it and taunting I don't see how anyone can possibly justify this over-reaction? As a non-USian I am constantly amazed by the abundance of flags in the US, they're everywhere, It can certainly be construed as jingoistic but if flags are what floats your boat then go for it.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
Actually, I'm fine with "taunting", it's the core of most football/basketball cheers. And it's officially sanctioned because "sports iz kool!" So we have arbitrary lines here, as anywhere.Coito ergo sum wrote:well, perhaps "taunting" was an ill-advised word - what I was thinking of when I used that word was more like harassing or bullying. I fully acknowledge that schools have to restrict speech in much the same way an employer has to restrict speech.Gawdzilla wrote:Taunting should be banned. Let's start with pep rallies and cheers at football games.Coito ergo sum wrote:Sure, but your assumption is that they were taunting. Wearing an Old Navy t-shirt with an American flag on it is not taunting. Now, if they were doing other things, or saying other things, that were taunts to other kids, then school administrators should step in.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
owtth wrote:Even if the kids wearing the flag were being dicks about it and taunting I don't see how anyone can possibly justify this over-reaction? As a non-USian I am constantly amazed by the abundance of flags in the US, they're everywhere, It can certainly be construed as jingoistic but if flags are what floats your boat then go for it.
No, it's pride, not war-mongering. I love it here. And I've sampled enough of the planet to make an informed choice."...it can certainly be construed as jingoistic"
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
I chose my words carefully, I am not saying it's war-mongering just that it can give that perception.Gawdzilla wrote: No, it's pride, not war-mongering. I love it here. And I've sampled enough of the planet to make an informed choice.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
I replied just as carefully. The perception of jingoism comes from what? Is the flag display supposed to support an attack on another country? (Some might, but the vast majority celebrate our nation, with no points being scored off any other.)owtth wrote:I chose my words carefully, I am not saying it's war-mongering just that it can give that perception.Gawdzilla wrote: No, it's pride, not war-mongering. I love it here. And I've sampled enough of the planet to make an informed choice.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
I think the perception comes solely from the higher status given to the national flag in the US compared to that given to national flags in other countries. To certain outsiders (like myself) it is unusual to view a flag as such a strong symbol as it is in the US. Perhaps it is just my own bias as the only time I have seen a similar preponderance of flags was in Northern Ireland where every neighbourhood was covered in either Union Jacks or Tricolours.Gawdzilla wrote: I replied just as carefully. The perception of jingoism comes from what? Is the flag display supposed to support an attack on another country? (Some might, but the vast majority celebrate our nation, with no points being scored off any other.)
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
But that's not Jingoism.owtth wrote:I think the perception comes solely from the higher status given to the national flag in the US compared to that given to national flags in other countries. To certain outsiders (like myself) it is unusual to view a flag as such a strong symbol as it is in the US. Perhaps it is just my own bias as the only time I have seen a similar preponderance of flags was in Northern Ireland where every neighbourhood was covered in either Union Jacks or Tricolours.Gawdzilla wrote: I replied just as carefully. The perception of jingoism comes from what? Is the flag display supposed to support an attack on another country? (Some might, but the vast majority celebrate our nation, with no points being scored off any other.)
A highly belligerent patriotism. Chauvinism. Originated in 19th century Britain when a popular song criticized government restraint during an international crisis: "We don't want to fight, Yet by jingo, if we do, We've got the ships, we've got the men, And got the money, too!" ...
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
No it's not, but it can be construed as jingoism, or misconstrued if you like.Gawdzilla wrote: But that's not Jingoism.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
I suppose if you don't know/understand the word it can be construed as such.owtth wrote:No it's not, but it can be construed as jingoism, or misconstrued if you like.Gawdzilla wrote: But that's not Jingoism.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
Which word?Gawdzilla wrote:I suppose if you don't know/understand the word it can be construed as such.owtth wrote:No it's not, but it can be construed as jingoism, or misconstrued if you like.Gawdzilla wrote: But that's not Jingoism.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
I think what Owtth is saying is that... it's like this.
A father walks in to a bank carrying his son's Toy Gun. Let's say his Son goes off with his mother, the father is still holding the Toy Gun. The bank teller sees the Toy Gun and assumes it's real. The man is innocent enough, but the bank teller only has an outside perspective.
A father walks in to a bank carrying his son's Toy Gun. Let's say his Son goes off with his mother, the father is still holding the Toy Gun. The bank teller sees the Toy Gun and assumes it's real. The man is innocent enough, but the bank teller only has an outside perspective.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
"Jingoism". It's being used inappropriately here. The vast majority of the flags are not being aimed at another country, so there's no war-mongering going on. So a simply display of a flag, say at a school, would be called "jingoism" only if one doesn't understand what the word means.owtth wrote:Which word?Gawdzilla wrote:I suppose if you don't know/understand the word it can be construed as such.owtth wrote:No it's not, but it can be construed as jingoism, or misconstrued if you like.Gawdzilla wrote: But that's not Jingoism.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi
Again, I never said it was jingoism, just that it can be interpreted as such. Kind of like what BAA said, only without using a gun.Gawdzilla wrote: "Jingoism". It's being used inappropriately here. The vast majority of the flags are not being aimed at another country, so there's no war-mongering going on. So a simply display of a flag, say at a school, would be called "jingoism" only if one doesn't understand what the word means.
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