High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shirts

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High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shirts

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri May 07, 2010 2:13 pm

School District: American Flag Clothing Incident "Extremely Unfortunate"
By JESSICA GREENE
Updated 6:53 AM PDT, Fri, May 7, 2010
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Some parents of students at Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill are keeping their kids home from school after tension related to an incident involving students wearing American flag clothing on Cinco de Mayo spilled out onto the streets.
Now the school district is sending a message to parents about the controversy, which has become national news. The school district's superintendant directly addressed parents Thursday in a letter posted on the school's website and also sent as a voicemail:
Good evening. This is Dr. Wesley Smith, Superintendent of the Morgan Hill Unified School District. The Morgan Hill Unified School District does not prohibit nor do we discourage wearing patriotic clothing. The incident on May 5 at Live Oak High School is extremely unfortunate. While campus safety is our primary concern and administrators made decisions yesterday in an attempt to ensure campus safety, students should not, and will not, be disciplined for wearing patriotic clothing. This situation and our response are under review.
We know that this is an emotionally charged topic. We would ask you to encourage your students to be safe and focus on their academics while in school. If conversations and/or activities are necessary to express their feelings on this issue, we will find appropriate venues that do not disturb student learning or jeopardize the safety of our students. Furthermore, we encourage everyone to demonstrate respect for each other, open communication, and responsibility.
Thank you for your support and understanding.
Dr. Wesley Smith
Superintendent
It all started on Wednesday, Cinco de Mayo, when five boys wore clothing depicting the American flag. The school's principal asked the boys to remove the items of clothing, turn their shirts inside out, or face suspenion. Instead, the boys opted to go home for the day.
On Thursday, about 200 Mexican-American students walked out of class in protest of the flag clothing incident. Members of the group waved the Mexican flag and said they were marching for respect and unity. They also demanded the school suspend the boys who wore the U.S. flag-adorned clothing.
As a result of this heated debate, other Bay Area schools by the name of Live Oak have been threatened. The Live Oak School District in Santa Cruz County has received several calls from people angry about the issue, even though they are in no way involved in the Morgan Hill school's issue. That district's superintendant believes it's just a same-name misunderstanding and lack of clarity in reporting the school's location.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-be ... 65324.html

Odd, that nobody wearing or waiving Mexican flag shirts were not likewise suspended for a day....

California kids blasted for wearing American flag shirts on Cinco de Mayo

BY LINDSAY GOLDWERT
DAILY NEWS WRITER

Thursday, May 6th 2010, 10:28 AM


Mayer/WireImage
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A handful of California students got an unexpected lesson at their high school this week: Don't wear your stars and stripes on Cinco de Mayo.

Five Morgan Hill, California students were asked to take off their American flag bandannas and turn their T-shirts inside out after students complained, according to NBC news in San Francisco.

Many members of Live Oak High School's large Mexican-American student population that felt it was offensive for the students to wear the American flag on a day that's supposed to celebrate Mexican heritage.

When the boys refused to take off their flag t-shirts and bandannas, they were ordered to go to the principal's office.

"They said we could wear it on any other day," Live Oak student Daniel Galli said, "but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it's supposed to be their holiday so we were not allowed to wear it today."

The alleged concern was that the T-shirts would lead to fights on campus.

"They said if we tried to go back to class with our shirts not taken off, they said it was defiance and we would get suspended," said Dominic Maciel.

The chastised teens' parents were furious.

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Julie Fagerstrom, Maciel's mom, said. "All they were doing was displaying their patriotic nature. They're expressing their individuality."

Morgan Hill Unified School District released a statement saying it does not agree with how Live Oak High School administrators handled this incident and that the boys would not be suspended.

But some students believe they are owed an apology.

"I think they should apologize cause it is a Mexican heritage day," Annicia Nunez, a Live Oak High student, told NBC. "We don't deserve to be get disrespected like that. We wouldn't do that on Fourth of July."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z0nFiM7chY

A Mexican heritage day?

It's a day commemorating the Mexican army's victory over the French. It's celebrated mainly in only one Mexican state, and has little significance in Mexico.

People have the right to celebrate whatever stupid holiday they want, and it's all well and good to waive a foreign flag around. The Italians have their parade day and Columbus day celebrations, for example. The Norwegians have celebrations on May 17, as well. And, just about every other group has their day or days. And, everyone is allowed to wear the flag of their forefathers. But, I've never heard anyone complain or assert that because we have an Italian heritage day or a Norwegian heritage day that that means that Americans are on those days prohibited from displaying American flags.

I stand behind an ethnically Mexican person's right to celebrate whatever holiday they want and wave whatever flag they want. But, the minute they want to stop someone else from doing the same, I say: :pawiz: Wearing an American flag takes nothing away from Cinco de Mayo, because Cinco de Mayo means to you only what it means to you. It means hardly anything to most Mexicans in Mexico. So what? Are they disrespecting Mexican heritage? Of course not.

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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri May 07, 2010 2:49 pm

And what happened there on St. Paddy's Day? Was anyone suspended for wearing a Merkin flag shirt that day? Did we check the cars for "Stars and Stripes" stickers of any kind? Did the school fly the Eire flag that day or some hateful rag with 13 stars?
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Link » Fri May 07, 2010 3:05 pm


The chastised teens' parents were furious.

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Julie Fagerstrom, Maciel's mom, said. "All they were doing was displaying their patriotic nature. They're expressing their individuality."
Yeah! All five of them were expressing their individuality by wearing a shirt with the American flag on :hehe:

As long as there was no intent on the part of the American students wearing the US flag on their shirts to wear them for the specific purpose of inflaming racial tension then i don't see a problem.

Of course the US students also couldn't have a problem with the 200 Mexican-American students wearing a Mexican flag shirt on the 4th July.

Clothing is of course a stupid thing to get worked up over but IMO it does seem to stink a bit of "Lets wear these US flag shirts to piss of those damned immigrants" "Dey Derk Errr Jerbs" which is a stupid thing to do in its own right. :lay:

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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri May 07, 2010 3:07 pm

"Lets wear these US flag shirts to piss of those damned immigrants"
Why do you think this? Is it just possible that the kids reached into the pile, pulled out a shirt that didn't smell TOO bad and wore it that day? Sheesh.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri May 07, 2010 3:09 pm

Link wrote:

The chastised teens' parents were furious.

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Julie Fagerstrom, Maciel's mom, said. "All they were doing was displaying their patriotic nature. They're expressing their individuality."
Yeah! All five of them were expressing their individuality by wearing a shirt with the American flag on :hehe:

As long as there was no intent on the part of the American students wearing the US flag on their shirts to wear them for the specific purpose of inflaming racial tension then i don't see a problem.
What does their subjective intent matter? It's either o.k. to wear it or its not. You mean, if one of them says, "yeah, I was just messin' with the Mexicans..." then he'd not be allowed to wear the shirt, but as long as we don't suspect they have ill will, they're cool?
Link wrote:
Of course the US students also couldn't have a problem with the 200 Mexican-American students wearing a Mexican flag shirt on the 4th July.
They can have whatever problem they want, but the Mexican students would be allowed to wear a mexican flag shirt if they want.
Link wrote:
Clothing is of course a stupid thing to get worked up over but IMO it does seem to stink a bit of "Lets wear these US flag shirts to piss of those damned immigrants" "Dey Derk Errr Jerbs" which is a stupid thing to do in its own right. :lay:
The fact remains, they were just shirts with American flags on them. There were no anti-Mexican messages, unless one is to conclude that the wearing of an American flag on Cinco de Mayo is anti-Mexican.

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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri May 07, 2010 3:09 pm

I was just reading about this is it's semi-local for me, and I have a friend who lives in Morgan Hill.

The whole thing has an air of ridiculousness, from several angles already mentioned.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri May 07, 2010 3:10 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
"Lets wear these US flag shirts to piss of those damned immigrants"
Why do you think this? Is it just possible that the kids reached into the pile, pulled out a shirt that didn't smell TOO bad and wore it that day? Sheesh.
Or, even if they said, "Hey, guys, let's all wear American flag t-shirts because we fucking hate Cinco de Mayo and think it's stupid." So what? I mean, even if that was their subjective intent, that wouldn't change the content of the t-shirt.

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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri May 07, 2010 3:13 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
"Lets wear these US flag shirts to piss of those damned immigrants"
Why do you think this? Is it just possible that the kids reached into the pile, pulled out a shirt that didn't smell TOO bad and wore it that day? Sheesh.
Or, even if they said, "Hey, guys, let's all wear American flag t-shirts because we fucking hate Cinco de Mayo and think it's stupid." So what? I mean, even if that was their subjective intent, that wouldn't change the content of the t-shirt.
Given that they're teenagers, I will say that they MIGHT have known what month it is, but not the day of the month, or that an ethnic event was associated with it.
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri May 07, 2010 3:14 pm

Morgan Hill: Teen athletes entangled in debate over U.S. flag clothing

By Lisa Fernandez and Bruce Newman

Mercury News
Posted: 05/06/2010 08:06:07 AM PDT
Updated: 05/06/2010 10:26:44 PM PDT

Four students exposed raw feelings about race and immigration in a Morgan Hill high school this week when they made the provocative choice to wear shirts and shorts bearing the stars and stripes of the American flag to school on Cinco de Mayo.

Now their actions — which an assistant principal at Live Oak High School labeled "incendiary" — are spilling across the small town's borders, igniting a national debate on cable television's 24-hour talkfest.

Wednesday, as the school's Latino pupils — nearly 40 percent of the Live Oak student body — were celebrating the Mexican army's victory against France in 1862, many wearing Mexico's colors of red, white and green, the boys showed up dressed in the American flag. Assistant Principal Miguel Rodriguez told them to wear the clothes inside out or go home. At least two of the boys left campus because they found the other option to be "disrespectful" to the flag, and the others remained in school without changing, their parents said.

Rodriguez could not be reached for comment — the school referred all calls to the district office — but parents said he indicated to them that he was concerned about the boys' safety. The Morgan Hill Unified School District later said what happened was "extremely unfortunate" and that there is no ban on "patriotic" clothing. The new immigration law in Arizona, giving police broad power to detain anyone suspected of being in the United States illegally, formed the backdrop for the school drama.

"We're happy about Arizona's law, and you bet we're fired up," said Julie Fagerstrom, whose son, Dominic Maciel, wore one of the shirts. Dominic's father, who is no longer in his son's life, Fagerstrom said, is a first-generation Mexican-American.

But the boys' action riled a number of the those who had celebrated Cinco de Mayo.

By Thursday morning, Mexican-American students began texting each other in class, and soon as many as 100 of them were standing in front of the school. A few minutes later they were marching down the road to Morgan Hill's city hall. "When we were marching, they would pass in their trucks and were flipping us off," said Gerardo Cabralas, a junior, referring to some non-Latino classmates. "And to be honest, sometimes we flipped them back."

A group of about a dozen Latino students expressed their dismay Thursday directly to the school's white students — particularly the boys who wore the flag clothing. "We respect them on Fourth of July," said sophomore Biana Coreas. "We don't go with our Mexican flags waving it up that day, so why can't they respect us too?"

The struggle for respect went on most of the day Thursday, and no one was certain when it would end.

"School was pretty crazy today," Dominic told the Mercury News. "I don't think I'm a villain; I was just representing my country. But I don't know if I would do this again. People took our message the wrong way. We weren't trying to start anything at all."

He said he can't remember whose idea it was to wear the garb and when the decision was made. Another boy — Matthew Dariano — also has some Mexican heritage, Fagerstrom said. The other two, Daniel Galli and Austin Carvalho, do not. "These are really great kids," Fagerstrom said. "They wear American flag clothes all the time. For the Fourth of July, for Memorial Day. They want to show their patriotism."

Diana Dariano, whose son Matthew wore a U.S. Constitution T-shirt, acknowledged that the friends wore the clothes to make a point: They love their country and believe in legal immigration.

"They heard that the Mexican kids were going to wear their colors so they wanted to wear the colors of the American flag," she said. "You can never tell someone in this country not to wear the American flag. It's America!"

Just as the school's administrators declined to punish the flag wearers, the Latino students said they had not suffered any disciplinary consequences for their march.

One free-speech expert said the boys should have been able to wear their country's colors to school.

"In the 1960s, students expressed themselves by desecrating the flag," said Peter Scheer, executive director with the First Amendment Coalition in San Rafael. "Flash 50 years ahead and the students are now demonstrating with the flag to show their patriotism. The same laws that protected the burning of the flag also protect wearing it."

That wasn't the only symbolic protest on Cinco de Mayo. About 20 students showed up at Pioneer High School wearing "Border Patrol" T-shirts. By the end of the day, administrators asked them to remove the shirts, which they apparently did with no problems, according to Karen Fuqua, spokeswoman for the San Jose Unified School District.

But Scheer, while defending the rights of the boys, also said there are times when a school principal can regulate students' dress.

"If the principal believes there will be a riot, then he can ban the shirts," Scheer said. "But if he thinks students are just going to be angry, it's not good enough."

Fagerstrom said the parents met with an assistant superintendent Wednesday evening who wanted to hear all the sides. At an earlier meeting, Principal Nick Boden and Rodriguez indicated to her that they were worried about the safety of the American-flag boys. "They said they heard from some students there was going to be some drama," Fagerstrom said.

District Superintendent Wesley Smith issued a statement Thursday: "The Morgan Hill Unified School District does not prohibit nor do we discourage wearing patriotic clothing. The incident on May 5 at Live Oak High School is extremely unfortunate. While campus safety is our primary concern and administrators made decisions yesterday in an attempt to ensure campus safety, students should not, and will not, be disciplined for wearing patriotic clothing. This matter is under investigation and appropriate action will be taken."

Meanwhile, the school's junior-senior prom is Saturday. "I'm kind of nervous about it," said senior Marina Schlaefli. "I'd rather this whole thing had never happened. It's making our school look bad, and it's not a bad school."
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by kiki5711 » Fri May 07, 2010 3:19 pm

Yea, everyone has the right to do whatever they want blah blah bla!

The point is in this story that kids wearing the US flag shirts were trying to make some kind of a statement as in "Fuck you Mehico" this is the US of A and go celebrate your cinko mayonaze somewhere else. It's a hot issue now days and can spark an argument very quickly especially among kids in school which affects the whole school and I think that's what the principal was trying to avoid.

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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri May 07, 2010 3:21 pm

kiki5711 wrote:Yea, everyone has the right to do whatever they want blah blah bla!

The point is in this story that kids wearing the US flag shirts were trying to make some kind of a statement as in "Fuck you Mehico" this is the US of A and go celebrate your cinko mayonaze somewhere else. It's a hot issue now days and can spark an argument very quickly especially among kids in school which affects the whole school and I think that's what the principal was trying to avoid.
So free speech has its limits, yes?
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by owtth » Fri May 07, 2010 3:31 pm

Any excuse for some Eddie

At least I'm housebroken.

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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by kiki5711 » Fri May 07, 2010 3:33 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
kiki5711 wrote:Yea, everyone has the right to do whatever they want blah blah bla!

The point is in this story that kids wearing the US flag shirts were trying to make some kind of a statement as in "Fuck you Mehico" this is the US of A and go celebrate your cinko mayonaze somewhere else. It's a hot issue now days and can spark an argument very quickly especially among kids in school which affects the whole school and I think that's what the principal was trying to avoid.
So free speech has its limits, yes?
I didn't see it as free speech. I see it as taunting for a fight. If they want to do it at home or in their neighborhood with their parents consent, who cares, but this is in a school and kids that want nothing to do with either side might get hurt. I'm thinking of my son recently who witnessed two boys fighting each other to a pulp right in front of everyone in the hall. Who knows if one of them decides to pull out a weapon and innocent bystanders get hurt.

Yea, my son thought it was a cool fight to watch, but it wasn't fun for me to listen to it knowing what might happen.

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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri May 07, 2010 3:35 pm

kiki5711 wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
kiki5711 wrote:Yea, everyone has the right to do whatever they want blah blah bla!

The point is in this story that kids wearing the US flag shirts were trying to make some kind of a statement as in "Fuck you Mehico" this is the US of A and go celebrate your cinko mayonaze somewhere else. It's a hot issue now days and can spark an argument very quickly especially among kids in school which affects the whole school and I think that's what the principal was trying to avoid.
So free speech has its limits, yes?
I didn't see it as free speech. I see it as taunting for a fight. If they want to do it at home or in their neighborhood with their parents consent, who cares, but this is in a school and kids that want nothing to do with either side might get hurt. I'm thinking of my son recently who witnessed two boys fighting each other to a pulp right in front of everyone in the hall. Who knows if one of them decides to pull out a weapon and innocent bystanders get hurt.

Yea, my son thought it was a cool fight to watch, but it wasn't fun for me to listen to it knowing what might happen.
Diana Dariano, whose son Matthew wore a U.S. Constitution T-shirt, acknowledged that the friends wore the clothes to make a point: They love their country and believe in legal immigration.
What's the problem here?
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Re: High School Kids Suspended for Wearing American Flag Shi

Post by Link » Fri May 07, 2010 3:37 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
"Lets wear these US flag shirts to piss of those damned immigrants"
Why do you think this? Is it just possible that the kids reached into the pile, pulled out a shirt that didn't smell TOO bad and wore it that day? Sheesh.
Or, even if they said, "Hey, guys, let's all wear American flag t-shirts because we fucking hate Cinco de Mayo and think it's stupid." So what? I mean, even if that was their subjective intent, that wouldn't change the content of the t-shirt.
Apologies if that came across in a way that i didn't intend, I'm not saying that it is wrong for them to wear the shirt at all.

My reply was two fold

1) I was amused by the parent commenting on the individuality in 5 students wearing the same shirt to school

2)I rate patriotism on a similar level as religion on the "utility to the Human Race" scale so I am always dissapointed when I see Xenophobia, If that was the intent behind the kids shirt choice then in my opinion it was a Dickish thing to do, that doesn't mean I don't think they should have the right to do it just that I wish there wasn't the need for them to make that statement in the first place (after all, countries are just arbitrarily labelled patches of habitable dirt anyway)

Gawd, It is quite possible that they each just grabbed a shirt in the morning without a thought to what day it was, the impression I got from the story though was that it was an intentional inflammatory thing. Alas Homo Sapiens don't seem to be able to shake our territorial nature and this is what leads to ridiculous situations like the one in the story above which all in all should be a non issue.

Again i'd like to re-emphasise that this doesn't mean I would argue against their right to wear whatever the hell they like.
Last edited by Link on Fri May 07, 2010 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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