response to emerging independent science on the 9/11 attacks

[Coito ergo sum]

Here is the "convergence of evidence from multiple lines of inquiry which most of you put down to chance:

3) That the planes impacting WTC 1 & 2 were preceded milliseconds before impact by a flash of light.

When the noses of the aircraft hit the buildings, you have a bright aluminum flash, the same as we saw at the Pentagon. That's obvious to anyone familiar with physics, chemistry, and what happens when aluminum hits a structure at a high rate of speed." And the proof of that analysis, is in the In Plane Sight video. If you watch just a few frames after the nose flash, you'll see two smaller aluminum flashes as each engine strikes the building. Check it again, Galaxian. You claimed before to know all about the laws of physics and nature. Are you rejecting them now?

Also, supposedly these flashes were caused by missiles, according to In Plane Sight, and other Truthers. The missiles are said to have been fired from the bulky pod on the belly of each of the jumbo jets, that you referred to in point 2. But, if that is the case, where is the flash from the ignition of the missile; why is there no missile exhaust flare seen on the video? Where is that flash?

So, why should we be concerned about flashes of light that are perfectly natural and according to the laws of physics and nature? It would have been weird if there weren't those flashes.

[Coito ergo sum]

O.k. - your first three points above are big nothings. I'll keep going, but it will have to be at a later time.

[Cunt]

I am waiting to see if Galaxian can admit he was wrong about the 'at or near freefall speed' bullshit. If he can't/doesn't, it really shows everyone just how serious he is about getting things right.

Every time he refuses to accept facts he does more to undermine his position than almost anything else I have seen.

Fucking entertaining.

[klr]

CES, I salute your indomitable perseverance ....

Here is the "convergence of evidence from multiple lines of inquiry which most of you put down to chance:

3) That the planes impacting WTC 1 & 2 were preceded milliseconds before impact by a flash of light.

When the noses of the aircraft hit the buildings, you have a bright aluminum flash, the same as we saw at the Pentagon. That's obvious to anyone familiar with physics, chemistry, and what happens when aluminum hits a structure at a high rate of speed." And the proof of that analysis, is in the In Plane Sight video. If you watch just a few frames after the nose flash, you'll see two smaller aluminum flashes as each engine strikes the building. Check it again, Galaxian. You claimed before to know all about the laws of physics and nature. Are you rejecting them now?

Also, supposedly these flashes were caused by missiles, according to In Plane Sight, and other Truthers. The missiles are said to have been fired from the bulky pod on the belly of each of the jumbo jets, that you referred to in point 2. But, if that is the case, where is the flash from the ignition of the missile; why is there no missile exhaust flare seen on the video? Where is that flash?

So, why should we be concerned about flashes of light that are perfectly natural and according to the laws of physics and nature? It would have been weird if there weren't those flashes.

And where is the "bulky pod"?

Every time conspiracy theorists make something up, God kills a kitten ...

[Coito ergo sum]

CES, I salute your indomitable perseverance ....

Here is the "convergence of evidence from multiple lines of inquiry which most of you put down to chance:

3) That the planes impacting WTC 1 & 2 were preceded milliseconds before impact by a flash of light.

When the noses of the aircraft hit the buildings, you have a bright aluminum flash, the same as we saw at the Pentagon. That's obvious to anyone familiar with physics, chemistry, and what happens when aluminum hits a structure at a high rate of speed." And the proof of that analysis, is in the In Plane Sight video. If you watch just a few frames after the nose flash, you'll see two smaller aluminum flashes as each engine strikes the building. Check it again, Galaxian. You claimed before to know all about the laws of physics and nature. Are you rejecting them now?

Also, supposedly these flashes were caused by missiles, according to In Plane Sight, and other Truthers. The missiles are said to have been fired from the bulky pod on the belly of each of the jumbo jets, that you referred to in point 2. But, if that is the case, where is the flash from the ignition of the missile; why is there no missile exhaust flare seen on the video? Where is that flash?

So, why should we be concerned about flashes of light that are perfectly natural and according to the laws of physics and nature? It would have been weird if there weren't those flashes.

And where is the "bulky pod"?

Every time conspiracy theorists make something up, God kills a kitten ...

This is what they're referring to when they talk about pods and "bulky" attachments on the bottom of the planes.

[klr]

Riiiight ... the "bulky pod" that just happens to look like what the main undercarriage bay fairing would look like when viewed from a certain angle and in a certain light, when moving at speed.



So, how did they manage to attach this ... er ... pod ... thing ... to the belly of an airliner, and take off, without anyone noticing?

[Coito ergo sum]

Riiiight ... the "bulky pod" that just happens to look like what the main undercarriage bay fairing would look like when viewed from a certain angle and in a certain light, when moving at speed.



So, how did they manage to attach this ... er ... pod ... thing ... to the belly of an airliner, and take off, without anyone noticing?

Well, like Galaxian said, it's not really a commercial airliner. It's a non-commercial airplane. Apparently, it was fitted with a pod to fire missiles. The instant before it struck the tower, a missile was fired which caused the instantaneous flash of white light as it impacted.

I'm not sure why they had to go through all this trouble, though, since also according to Galaxian, the building was brought down by a controlled demolition. But, nevertheless, that is Galaxian's argument. The buildings were brought down by a controlled demolition, but the buildings were also hit by noncommercial planes made to look like airlines but fitted with military missile pods underneath in order to fire a missile at the exact instant that the nose of the plane was hitting the wall of the tower. And, the US military "must have" ordered the air defense to "stand down" so as not to intercept these noncommercial planes that were actually controlled by the same people who rigged the airplanes to fire the missiles as they struck the towers.

[klr]

Riiiight ... the "bulky pod" that just happens to look like what the main undercarriage bay fairing would look like when viewed from a certain angle and in a certain light, when moving at speed.



So, how did they manage to attach this ... er ... pod ... thing ... to the belly of an airliner, and take off, without anyone noticing?

Well, like Galaxian said, it's not really a commercial airliner. It's a non-commercial airplane. Apparently, it was fitted with a pod to fire missiles. The instant before it struck the tower, a missile was fired which caused the instantaneous flash of white light as it impacted.

I'm not sure why they had to go through all this trouble, though, since also according to Galaxian, the building was brought down by a controlled demolition. But, nevertheless, that is Galaxian's argument. The buildings were brought down by a controlled demolition, but the buildings were also hit by noncommercial planes made to look like airlines but fitted with military missile pods underneath in order to fire a missile at the exact instant that the nose of the plane was hitting the wall of the tower. And, the US military "must have" ordered the air defense to "stand down" so as not to intercept these noncommercial planes that were actually controlled by the same people who rigged the airplanes to fire the missiles as they struck the towers.

Back at RD.net, I once posted some back-of-the-envelope calculations about how many interception-capable aircraft the US military might have in the air or on standby at any given time. Some people just blithely assume that the US is so awash with jet fighters that one can be all over a "problem" aircraft within a few short minutes of a problem being identified. Not so. Not even the US can do that.

[Trolldor]

We can... Tiny country, not many targets.

[klr]

We can... Tiny country, not many targets.

Big country, enough "targets" that 70-odd F/A-18s (of which only a handful would be airborne or on standby at any given time) wouldn't stand a chance of getting to a problem plane in a few minutes - on average.

[Pappa]

If it was a US Govt. conspiracy...

Why didn't they just get two commercial airliners and fly them onto the towers, and not bother with all the fiddly missiles, thermite, precision timing, etc.?

It would have been a lot easier.

[Coito ergo sum]

Here is the "convergence of evidence from multiple lines of inquiry which most of you put down to chance:

4) That 3 towers, of 110 floors & 47 floors, collapsed at close to freefall accelaration, despite the fact that each floor had to collide with & dis-engage each floor below it, and thus set it accelarating, from scratch. So how did they reach the ground as fast as if there had been nothing in the way?
:

Ummm....no.

We've already established that the towers did not fall at "close to" free fall speed. They fell, and you admitted this, at a speed at least 40-45% faster than freefall speed. So, the answer is, they did not reach the ground as fast as if there had been nothing in the way. They fell at the speed and acceleration one would expect if the top floors collapsed on the ones below the impact area, and caused a catastrophic collapse of the whole building from the top down.

And, that is how they fell - you can see it from the video, Galaxian. The top began to fall, and then the progressively lower floors fell.

In a "controlled demolition" it looks and sounds like this:



And, that's completely unlike how the buildings fell on 9/11/01. They aren't even in the same realm. Nothing about the towers on 9/11 looks like a real controlled demolition. Exhibit A is the hudson's building above, which I saw in person, which took many weeks to prepare, was gutted, and rigged very carefully while the block around the building was cordoned off.

Now watch the south tower collapse:



Look at it. It is collapsing, obviously, from the top down. It's not happening even remotely like the Hudson's building collapsed. It does not look like a controlled demolition at all.

Now watch the North Tower collapse:



It's not being blown out from the insides like the Hudson's bulding. The whole chunk from above the impact area gives way and drops on the floors below it and the building can no longer hold the weight because its structural supports have given out. It is collapsing from the top down.

Do you still maintain it was a controlled demoltion?

[Ian]

Galaxian, you could really do with taking a critical thinking course. You wouldn't last a week in my job. As an intel analyst, when I get a piece of information I immediately have to ask things like "Is the information source reliable? How objective is it? Could I be misinterpreting it? What cognitive biases do I already have about the subject/country? What information do I not have? How might this affect my analysis? What are the odds that my assessments are wrong?" You don't seem to be asking these things. You certainly haven't answered my questions, I suspect because you cannot answer them and would rather just debate physics and rant about the evil US government.

You've heard of the scientific method, right? Review all available information and then see what reasonable conclusions can be drawn from it? Theists do the opposite: they've already got their conclusions within their religion, and they seek to find any information, however convuluted or incomplete, to support their conclusions. You're approaching this issue using theist logic, not rational skepticism. Are you not an atheist? You could at least admit to everyone here that you utterly despise the US, especially the last administration, and that this might, just might, have affected your objective analysis.

I've got a solution to this mess. Galaxian, if it is your mission to sow the seeds of doubt amongst others, you have failed miserably here at Rationalia. I think I can speak for everyone here when I say that you're at best engaged in wishful thinking, and your credibility is at zero. This will affect your reputation when you try to debate any other topic here; Rationalia just isn't as big as RDF, and everyone in our politics forum has gotten a taste of you now. So, instead of constantly being shot down and called an idiot here, why don't you move over to Rapture Ready or one of those theist forums? You may not like the sort of crowd there much, but by their very nature those types of people are more willing to listen to outlandish theories based on nothing more than paranoia and wild speculation. You might even find a convert or two, if you can put up with them trying to save your soul for heaven every other post. You're just not going to find them here, sorry.

[owtth]

If it was a US Govt. conspiracy...

Why didn't they just get two commercial airliners and fly them onto the towers, and not bother with all the fiddly missiles, thermite, precision timing, etc.?

It would have been a lot easier.

The missile was just fired to soften up the target prior to impact, which was just to soften up the building prior to reverse controlled demolition. It's Occam's razor people ffs

[Rum]

If it was a US Govt. conspiracy...

Why didn't they just get two commercial airliners and fly them onto the towers, and not bother with all the fiddly missiles, thermite, precision timing, etc.?

It would have been a lot easier.

The missile was just fired to soften up the target prior to impact, which was just to soften up the building prior to reverse controlled demolition. It's Occam's razor people ffs

I think the Twin Towers were made of cheese.