Was bin Laden surprised by the US response to 9/11/01?

[Coito ergo sum]

Oh no! That would imply that you have a definite persona and predictable attitudes. Nobody would have ever thought that of you.

Getting a bit personal there, Gawd ...


I read the op as a question, and a rather interesting one ...

Plausible deniability.

If you feel I had an ulterior motive, don't just skirt around the issue making silly implications. Tell me what you think was my purpose for the OP? Which side of the issue do you assume I'm on, and why? What's your problem?

[Coito ergo sum]

Historically, how had the people they bullied and terrorised on their own soil prior to their attack on the US, reacted to them? That may give us an idea of how they thought the American people would react to such aggression. They may have had some notion in their minds that they could force some sort of capitulation or 'respect' through chaos, anguish and fear. It's how they operate in their own culture.

The Japanese thought they could intimidate the US. TWICE. Once when they attacked Pearl Harbor, thinking that such a blow would stun us. They were wrong. Then during Operation Ketsu-Go they thought they could inflict so much damage on us that we would settle for less than unconditional surrender.

Surely bin Laden had read some history prior to giving 9/11 the go-ahead?
How could he not think that the US would be only too happy to try and shove a MOAB up his ass?

Prior to 9/11/01 no country had ever undertaken a military operation like that in Afghanistan. It was by no means assumed that the US had the power and ability to do what it ultimately did in Afghanistan.

[Coito ergo sum]

How could he not think that the US would be only too happy to try and shove a MOAB up his ass?

I repeat:

bin Laden's thinking

There's the contentious point right there.

MOAB project wasn't begun until 2002, so that particular weapon was not known about beforehand. I think the larger point was that UBL did not just think we didn't have the stomach, but that we did not have the technological capability to reach him in Afghanistan to any great degree, and that its proximity to Russia and China, Iran and Pakistan, would make it too hairy for us to do anything worthwhile.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If you feel I had an ulterior motive, don't just skirt around the issue making silly implications. Tell me what you think was my purpose for the OP? Which side of the issue do you assume I'm on, and why? What's your problem?

I never did like Michael J. Fox's character on that stupid TV show.

[Coito ergo sum]

a libertarian one day, and a "far right conservative" the next

While many conservatives are not libertarians, I regard libertarians as both right wing and conservatives.

However, libertarians hold many left wing views, and are often not very conservative at all. And, nevertheless, I subscribe to neither libertarianism nor right wing conservatism.

[Hermit]

libertarians hold many left wing views, and are often not very conservative at all.

Perhaps in another thread?

Come to think of it, could some mod or admin hive the relevant posts off to a newly created thread dedicated to this sort of thing, please?

[Ian]

How could he not think that the US would be only too happy to try and shove a MOAB up his ass?

I repeat:

bin Laden's thinking

There's the contentious point right there.

MOAB project wasn't begun until 2002, so that particular weapon was not known about beforehand.

Sue me. MOABs are just successors to the Daisy Cutter bombs used in Vietnam.

I think the larger point was that UBL did not just think we didn't have the stomach, but that we did not have the technological capability to reach him in Afghanistan to any great degree, and that its proximity to Russia and China, Iran and Pakistan, would make it too hairy for us to do anything worthwhile.

Maybe so. In which case bin Laden is a lot dumber than we usually give him credit for. Militarily, knocking the Taliban out of power was fairly easy. In late 2001 many of the ground troops in Afghanistan weren't even American; we were providing air support to the anti-Taliban insurgency already there. As for other nations, none of them had any inclination to stand in the way of the US right after 9/11. The Bush administration actually threatened Pakistan to make sure they were going to be on our side on this, and Islamabad didn't contest it for a minute. They all knew which way the wind was blowing.

[Trolldor]

Copypasta of Libertarian Ideology:

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

Then, after spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, I drive back to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and the fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log onto the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

[Coito ergo sum]

[Gawdzilla Sama]

tl;dr

[Coito ergo sum]

tl;dr

It's just a stupid nonsense post that (a) has nothing to do with the thread because libertarian ideology does not call for one to have an opinion one way or the other on this issue and does not imply what one's view might be on this issue, and (b) it completely mischaracterizes libertarianism anyway.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

tl;dr

It's just a stupid nonsense post that (a) has nothing to do with the thread because libertarian ideology does not call for one to have an opinion one way or the other on this issue and does not imply what one's view might be on this issue, and (b) it completely mischaracterizes libertarianism anyway.

I was replying to your reply.

[Coito ergo sum]

tl;dr

It's just a stupid nonsense post that (a) has nothing to do with the thread because libertarian ideology does not call for one to have an opinion one way or the other on this issue and does not imply what one's view might be on this issue, and (b) it completely mischaracterizes libertarianism anyway.

I was replying to your reply.

[Galaxian]

What a weird thread. It isn't even established that Bin Laden knew about or organized 9/11; he was surprised by it!

[Coito ergo sum]

What a weird thread. It isn't even established that Bin Laden knew about or organized 9/11; he was surprised by it!

We have his own admission:

A tape aired by Al-Jazeera television in October, 2004, showed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden admitting that he orchestrated the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and saying the United States could face more attacks. Bin Laden said he thought of the method of attacking U.S. skyscrapers when he saw Israeli aircraft bombing tower blocks in Lebanon in 1982. "We decided to destroy towers in America," he said. "God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind."

Let's see, you've called the FBI's handling of videotapes at the Pentagon an "admission" when they didn't actually admit anything....I wonder what you will call an actual, literal, admission?