Evidence for Allah - contains images which may disturb

[GoodSmeagol]

He is permitting and ordering this then. Confused chap isn't he.

Terrible thing to do Ghatanothoa posting dirty Gay pictures "Will somebody think of the children "

Just bumping this to the end of the thread.





just Bumpted this cos I'm too lazy to go find more pics I shall go find some later on my own PC

[charlou]

[mandy]

Feck:
If you want to know what scientists think?ask around there are a few on the forum. And your qualifications for telling all us scientists what to think Are ? (Just so we will all know to defer to your greater intelligence and logic)

mate Feck me not telling you what to do. im just giving you my opinions and whatever i believe is right. if you dont like it ignore it. i aint your teacher.
scientists dont always think straight. they aint perfect you know. they make mistakes mate. so im only pointing them out. hope you dont mind that feck.

[mandy]

you guys are so into gays. disgusting stuff. i bet you let you kids into that sort of shameless stuff dont you?
you lucky you aint in Allah's country coz you'd be foked. so enjoy sinning it while it lasts coz when jesus and imam mahdi come to sort you out, you all gonna get stoned bad style.
you know what Allah did to gay town of sodom gomora. its gonna happen to other cites too. Allah spreads his wrath equally. you aint getting away with nothing.

[mandy]

Coito ergo sum:

I don't. That's what you do with your "allah" nonsense. You have no evidence for Allah. You just don't know the answer to a question and throw Allah in there to provide an answer.

look mate, at least I dont do all that crap about I dont know i dont know and all that other IF IF IF bollocks. i say i have evidence. you dont even admit your multiverse crap is a wet dream. instead you try to slip it in as if it were true. mate, if you gonna talk, talk like an honest guy, dont try sly. you know what i mean.

look here at what you did. what all this is it aint just bollocks. bring facts, not ifs its and buts buts:

Multiverse:

It is a contested theory

I did not make the assertion that there is a multiverse

I merely stated "if" there is a multiverse.

I don't know that there is.

If there isn't a multiverse, than this is the only universe

there is no evidence for any other hidden universes out there. so dont be chatting bollocks to me. talk science or reason. everything else is false.

I said "if."

We don't have to pretend to know answers that we don't know.

but you do pretend like many others do. most of you atheists fake science more than women fake orgasm. multiverse, my arse. why did you dig that up for.

I know lots of better answers.

all you know is more ifs and buts and maybes. thats all bollocks.
what you said here is what i already believe from Allah. He already told us that mate

Like - stars and planets come to be through the process of nebular formation - a rotating nebula cooled and contracted, throwing off rings of matter that contracted into the planets and their moons, while the great mass of the condensing nebula became the sun. You see, at one point in time, there was no Earth, and about 4.5 billion years ago, through the interplay of matter and energy and the four main forces (strong/weak nuclear, electromagnetism and gravity), the Earth formed. The heavy elements in the Earth were formed in the heart of a start that existed previously, having been formed through nuclear fusion reactions out of lighter elements. The hundreds of billions of stars and solar systems, and trillions of planets all formed in much the same way over billions of years.

During the last 14.5 billion years the universe has been expanding, and solar systems forming and being destroyed through supernovae according to physical, chemical and nuclear processes. In the past the universe was much smaller, indicating that the universe was, early on, very small indeed. At a very early period of time about 14.5 billion years ago we are unsure what was happening since our physics breaks down.

there you go again. i told you not to save you honesty till the end of your little story. why do you always do that. why cant you be honest at the start of all that bollocks and just say you dont know who made the universe. just say it mate, it aint that hard. honesty is good for you. telling the truth is healthy. im telling you mate. just say it straight. dont be beating around the bush. then we can talk.

you say the right things a bit late like this one here:

So the idea is that we know quite a bit about how things form and come to be in the universe, but there are some things we don't know yet, like the events that would have occurred very very early on in the universe, about 14.5 billion years ago.

good, very goood. see, that was not hard was it. mate, you were honest and admitted you dont know jack shit what went on at the beginning of it all. but please say this at the start of your nice sounding flowery lectures and dont decieve the people with sly stuff pretending you know and then finally say i dont know what i am chatting about. got that mate?

im only giving you a bit of good advice coz i like you, but you are free to do whatever you want. you can carry on with your bollocks the way you like to do it. i dont care at all. i know what went on, you dont.


but you keep saying i dont know, i dont know, i dont know, i dont know, i dont know...

No I don't. Stop lying. It's supposed to be a sin.

I said there are SOME things of which we do not know (yet). But, there are many things that we do know.

oh buddah, not that again. listen mate, just read what i said above. i aint lying never ever. i told you what is right. you just dont like being criticised do you? you think you are pefect?

You don't know.

i do mate. its you who keep saying we dont know we dont know we dont know. read your words what you told me mate.

now that murder example you gave:

First we look at the evidence and see if there is evidence that a murder occurred at all. It's possible it was suicide, until we know more information.
at this point we don't know if a murder was committed. As far as anyone knows, this happened via natural causes.

mate, dont try to be too clever and change your bloody murder example into a new suicide example. stick to murder that was you gave first. its dishonest to keep changing the goal posts. please dont be a sly. you will lose your credibility in front of women. dont forget ladies they are watching you.

[Animavore]

you guys are so into gays. disgusting stuff. i bet you let you kids into that sort of shameless stuff dont you?
you lucky you aint in Allah's country coz you'd be foked. so enjoy sinning it while it lasts coz when jesus and imam mahdi come to sort you out, you all gonna get stoned bad style.
you know what Allah did to gay town of sodom gomora. its gonna happen to other cites too. Allah spreads his wrath equally. you aint getting away with nothing.

coz some ignorant chav that cant spell iz gonna stone me innit?

[kiki5711]

What the feck is going on?

[mandy]

kiki5711, you must be new here mate. so what im gonna do it first reply to you. im gonna tell you and bring you up to date with all this bollocks.
im a new convert to islam and these atheists are all ganging up on me, asking me all sorts, you know what i mean. they want Allah, i gave them Allah but then aint having Him no more.
but these atheists are not taking it seriously, they still keep asking me for evidence for Allah. i said ok, i'll give you about 4 or 5 evidences from science and universe. so i start with one on this thread. i gave em but they just cant read it. they are also trying to be clever with me.
so there you are. you know now. if you or anyone else atheists or whatever, want to ask me anything, you can ask, dont be shy. just ask me what you like, but please be honest and we will have a good chat. i will answer you questions, just write it down properly with a question mark ? yes that one, at the end.

do it here mate:
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10328

or here:
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10730


this thread is only about Allah and no one else, where i give you all scientific evidence about Allah. read it properly and what guys have said to it. they are being childish sometimes and dont even stick to Allah who made the Universe and who is the topic here. just go back and read it all. you will see im saying facts.

by the way that aint my picture. im male and i look like clooney with a nice beard. see the picture on the other thread i gave link of.
this pictture here is that of a muslim woman. when i became member of this forum, i had the photo of BUSH the liar. but moderators didnt like it. so i think they swiped it off me, and since then its nowhere to be found. i ask them to find the person who took it down but no one did nothing. and i dont know where it it gone now. they didnt even bother finding it. they must have loved Bush and got pissed at seeing him called TERRORIST NUMBER ONE. so they deleted the photo of him. i uploaded this one of a female. but i aint a female. i am a man. and i aint gay. i dont like gays. i think they are sinning. its not natural thing for man to sleep with a man. men should only lay women. that why Allah made them for men.

[Tigger]

I was expecting a RAY of hope here, but it continues.
Apropos of nothing, and this isn't a reply to anyone, of course.

[charlou]

What the feck is going on?

[youtubeuk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q54LJ5RsqRw[/youtubeuk]

[Coito ergo sum]

Coito ergo sum:

I don't. That's what you do with your "allah" nonsense. You have no evidence for Allah. You just don't know the answer to a question and throw Allah in there to provide an answer.

look mate,

Once again, I'm not your mate. Stop calling me mate.

at least I dont do all that crap about I dont know i dont know and all that other IF IF IF bollocks.

I didn't do that. I told you some things which we know pretty well, and there's just that little bit towards the beginning that we don't know (yet). It's a virtue to have the humility to know when you don't know something. To pretend knowledge you don't have is dishonest.

i say i have evidence. you dont even admit your multiverse crap is a wet dream. instead you try to slip it in as if it were true. mate, if you gonna talk, talk like an honest guy, dont try sly. you know what i mean.

I've been 100% honest. You don't have evidence. All you've done is ask a question, admit that you don't have an answer, and then arbitrarily insert Allah in there as the answer.

look here at what you did. what all this is it aint just bollocks. bring facts, not ifs its and buts buts:

Multiverse:

It is a contested theory

It is. I wasn't offering it as truth. I was addressing your use of the term "big" in relation to the universe.

I did not make the assertion that there is a multiverse

No, I didn't. I said IF there is a multiverse, then we might be able to judge whether we live in a big or small universe.

I merely stated "if" there is a multiverse.

Exactly.

I don't know that there is.

I don't. So, I don't claim that there is.

If there isn't a multiverse, than this is the only universe

Right, and then the universe would neither be big nor small, it would just be the universe, since we'd have nothing to compare it too.

there is no evidence for any other hidden universes out there. so dont be chatting bollocks to me. talk science or reason. everything else is false.

Just stop your babbling and state what your evidence for Allah is, if you have anything other than: I arbitrarily assume, by fiat, that universes can't exist without Allah creating them.

I said "if."

We don't have to pretend to know answers that we don't know.

but you do pretend like many others do. most of you atheists fake science more than women fake orgasm. multiverse, my arse. why did you dig that up for.

I know lots of better answers.

all you know is more ifs and buts and maybes. thats all bollocks.
what you said here is what i already believe from Allah. He already told us that mate

Stop calling me mate. Well, if we believe the same thing because "what I've said here" is "what you believe" then what are you fucking arguing about?

Like - stars and planets come to be through the process of nebular formation - a rotating nebula cooled and contracted, throwing off rings of matter that contracted into the planets and their moons, while the great mass of the condensing nebula became the sun. You see, at one point in time, there was no Earth, and about 4.5 billion years ago, through the interplay of matter and energy and the four main forces (strong/weak nuclear, electromagnetism and gravity), the Earth formed. The heavy elements in the Earth were formed in the heart of a start that existed previously, having been formed through nuclear fusion reactions out of lighter elements. The hundreds of billions of stars and solar systems, and trillions of planets all formed in much the same way over billions of years.

During the last 14.5 billion years the universe has been expanding, and solar systems forming and being destroyed through supernovae according to physical, chemical and nuclear processes. In the past the universe was much smaller, indicating that the universe was, early on, very small indeed. At a very early period of time about 14.5 billion years ago we are unsure what was happening since our physics breaks down.

there you go again. i told you not to save you honesty till the end of your little story. why do you always do that. why cant you be honest at the start of all that

I was completely honest. Why can't you digest more than one sentence at a time? Too much for you?

bollocks and just say you dont know who made the universe.

I don't have to explain my position using your words. You love to mischaracterize things, and make false assumptions.

I'll make a deal with you. I will make the statement you just asked me to make, if you will make the following: "I don't know if ANYONE made the universe."

just say it mate, it aint that hard. honesty is good for you. telling the truth is healthy. im telling you mate. just say it straight. dont be beating around the bush. then we can talk.

i haven't beaten around the bush: I have no idea if anyone made the universe - it appears that the universe came about due to natural processes involving physics, chemistry and other processes that govern the interplay of matter, energy and the four known universal forces (strong/weak nuclear force, electromagnetism and gravity).

So, why don't you admit that you just can't think of a natural explanation for the existence of the universe, so you arbitrarily pick Allah as the "answer?" Come on fella, be honest.

you say the right things a bit late like this one here:

So the idea is that we know quite a bit about how things form and come to be in the universe, but there are some things we don't know yet, like the events that would have occurred very very early on in the universe, about 14.5 billion years ago.

good, very goood. see, that was not hard was it. mate, you were honest and admitted you dont know jack shit what went on at the beginning of it all.

I never once claimed I did. That' s your department. You don't know, and you then say "Allahdidit."

but please say this at the start of your nice sounding flowery lectures and dont decieve the people with sly stuff pretending you know and then finally say i dont know what i am chatting about. got that mate?

I'll make my arguments in any way I please, got that mate. You really need to get an education.

im only giving you a bit of good advice coz i like you, but you are free to do whatever you want. you can carry on with your bollocks the way you like to do it. i dont care at all. i know what went on, you dont.

I don't like you. And, yes, as long as your kind doesn't get in control, I remain free to do whatever I want.

Go bury your face in the dirt and grovel to your false god and go threaten to kill someone for displaying an image of your false prophet. That should be a better use of your time then sitting here repeating over and over again that you think universes can't exist unless Allah rides in on his magic carpet and rubs a magic lamp and grants himself three wishes.

but you keep saying i dont know, i dont know, i dont know, i dont know, i dont know...

I don't keep saying that. YOU keep saying that.

I have only said that I know somethings, and not others. You claim universal knowledge when you don't have it. Stop lying Ali-Baba.

No I don't. Stop lying. It's supposed to be a sin.

I said there are SOME things of which we do not know (yet). But, there are many things that we do know.

oh buddah, not that again. listen mate, just read what i said above. i aint lying never ever. i told you what is right. you just dont like being criticised do you? you think you are pefect?

All you do is lie. You're a sock-puppet, that much we know. And, you have lied about your family, as others noted above.

I'm not perfect, not by a long shot, but I am better than you (but, that's easy to do).

Run along now and go beat your sister or something, or cut your forehead with a knife and beat yourself with a chain.

You don't know.

i do mate. its you who keep saying we dont know we dont know we dont know. read your words what you told me mate.

now that murder example you gave:

First we look at the evidence and see if there is evidence that a murder occurred at all. It's possible it was suicide, until we know more information.
at this point we don't know if a murder was committed. As far as anyone knows, this happened via natural causes.

mate, dont try to be too clever and change your bloody murder example into a new suicide example. stick to murder that was you gave first. its dishonest to keep changing the goal posts. please dont be a sly. you will lose your credibility in front of women. dont forget ladies they are watching you.

It wasn't my example. I was just explaining how you were wrong (again).

[Stein]

Look, speaking personally, my take is that there is some degree of evidence for deity generally. But even that is "some degree of" only, not proof. Furthermore, I see no clear evidence at all for deity being specifically Allah, or Yahweh, or Jehovah, or Brahma, or Ningirsu, or Baal, or Jove, or Jupiter, or Zeus, or Tian -- or what/who/ever. Whatever evidence for deity there is -- and again, such evidence is distinct from proof -- is only rooted in huge historic cycles showing cultural transformations within the homo sapiens species among various communities and societies throughout the ages, not connected with any one take on deity within any one region or any one era. Instead, it's what "goes down" in era after era and region after region -- all taken together -- that is ultimately useful to this question.

Why do so many different regions and eras bear witness to this startling notion of a deity? Sure, one could well maintain that a primitive hankering after any old explanation for everything is ultimately at the back of the deity notion in one case or two or three or four .... or five ............. But dozens? That's what history gives us. And if there isn't something more concrete and relevant at the back of this deity notion, as would appear by its staggering level of recurrence in culture after culture, could there be something basic in our brains instead that is invariably present and induces this deity notion across the eons?

Seemingly small minds like Mandelson's (whom I'm beginning to think is not really a Muslim at all but is just having us on) may have trouble dealing with this huge question simply because his outlook -- whether genuinely Islamic or not -- seems terribly parochial (to me). One has to view this question globally and historically to get a proper grasp of its huge dimensions.

Recent scientific research suggests some symbiotic connection between gluing community together and the notion of the metaphysical and/or the divine. Why?

I invite us to look at these two pages on the Web. What do they suggest to you? --

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/902.aspx

http://www.slate.com/id/2165026/

There is also a curious dual pattern that I've encountered that I believe needs more scrutiny -- preferably from a whole panel of thoroughly up-to-date scientists and cultural historians -- researchers who will also be numerous enough to reflect all attitudes ranging from atheist to Hindu to agnostic to Christian to Jewish to Buddhist to Platonic to Confucian to .......... every philosophical slant you can name in order to neutralize any possible individual bias.

In brief, this dual pattern involves the concrete literary record of the beginnings of various cultural doctrines throughout time and what these earliest documents from each paradigm-shifting doctrine can tell us. To assess all this properly at the outset needs 8 concrete steps involving certain premises, a few hypotheses to be tested rigorously and alternate interpretations of curious pieces of literary data:

1. Premise 1 -- any species dependent on socialization, such as humanity, needs an ethic of mutual caring in order just to survive;

2. Hypothesis 1 -- human history reveals all autonomous altruistic doctrines, advanced to reform occasional human indifference, as a positive for the species;

3. Datum 1 -- in their primary texts, autonomous altruistic doctrines seem to show a symbiotic relationship to autonomous formulations for the divine (twelve such figures hardly cover all of this, but they are illustratively useful -- Mesalim | Urukagina | Moses | Wen Wang | Hesiod | Lao-tzu | Siddhartha Gautama Buddha | Confucius [Kung-fut-ze] | Socrates | Jesus Christ | John Locke | Thomas Jefferson);

4. Hypothesis 2 -- the reason for that symbiotic relationship may be a link of some kind between pioneering altruism and some kind of deity, although indicating nothing re theists in general.

5. Premise 2 -- humanity sows the seeds of its own destruction if too critical a mass of its members look out only for themselves;

6. Hypothesis 3 -- all autonomous self-centered doctrines are a negative for the species;

7. Datum 2 -- in their primary texts, autonomous self-centered doctrines seem to show a symbiotic relationship to autonomous formulations for atheism (Brhaspati | Critias | Jean Meslier); and

8. Hypothesis 4 -- the reason for that symbiotic relationship may be a link of some kind between autonomous "self-ism" and autonomous atheism, although indicating nothing re atheists in general.

Now, in its bald form, does this dual pattern tell us that human society needs some self-propelled insight into some divine construct in order not to devolve into a self-destructive orgy of greed and selfishness? Can human community, then, only evolve into a society that is prosperous, free and considerate of each other when such a construct of the divine is concurrently promulgated? If so, how come?

Must this construct be related to something really divine that really exists, or can it really be related to a delusion that is hard-wired in our brains? If it is a delusion, can we come up with any other normal evolving process that has also helped fashion human communities effectively and yet has always been symbiotically tied to a generally conceded delusion? If no other clear parallel to this exists, then could a more general construct of the divine containing only minimal elements that are only common to all faiths (which would mean that one would have to jettison any notions of deity as, among other things, creator or controller of events, since these are constructs not present in all faiths) really reflect a true reality after all?

Only a rigorous and long-term scientific project geared toward a large-scale, multi-attitude, multicultural study of this cultural evolution pattern for cultural/social doctrines throughout time could even begin to answer such questions satisfactorily.

Stein

[Coito ergo sum]

Look, speaking personally, my take is that there is some degree of evidence for deity generally.

What evidence might that me?

But even that is "some degree of" only, not proof. Furthermore, I see no clear evidence at all for deity being specifically Allah, or Yahweh, or Jehovah, or Brahma, or Ningirsu, or Baal, or Jove, or Jupiter, or Zeus, or Tian -- or what/who/ever. Whatever evidence for deity there is -- and again, such evidence is distinct from proof -- is only rooted in huge historic cycles showing cultural transformations within the homo sapiens species among various communities and societies throughout the ages, not connected with any one take on deity within any one region or any one era. Instead, it's what "goes down" in era after era and region after region -- all taken together -- that is ultimately useful to this question.

Why do so many different regions and eras bear witness to this startling notion of a deity?

Nobody knows for sure. It seems to me to be one way for people to try to make sense of their existence. People seem to universally ask themselves "why am I here?" How did I get here? And, not being able to fathom a natural explanation, they personify things like lightening, thunder, volcanoes and other natural phenomena. After all, the earth doesn't just move itself, water doesn't just fall from the sky by itself and lightening doesn't just happen on its own.

Sure, one could well maintain that a primitive hankering after any old explanation for everything is ultimately at the back of the deity notion in one case or two or three or four .... or five ............. But dozens? That's what history gives us. And if there isn't something more concrete and relevant at the back of this deity notion, as would appear by its staggering level of recurrence in culture after culture, could there be something basic in our brains instead that is invariably present and induces this deity notion across the eons?

Well, people share almost the same genetic characteristics with each other, so it's not surprising that most people's brains would operate much the same way. It's not really surprising that a god-notion would be common to most human cultures and then tailored to their circumstances.

Seemingly small minds like Mandelson's (whom I'm beginning to think is not really a Muslim at all but is just having us on) may have trouble dealing with this huge question simply because his outlook -- whether genuinely Islamic or not -- seems terribly parochial (to me). One has to view this question globally and historically to get a proper grasp of its huge dimensions.

Recent scientific research suggests some symbiotic connection between gluing community together and the notion of the metaphysical and/or the divine. Why?

Because if people believe the same things and perform the same rituals they feel like they are members of the same group and share a commonality that outsiders do not share.

[cowiz]

Look, speaking personally, my take is that there is some degree of evidence for deity generally.

Please fill your boots and educate me on what this "degree" of evidence might be.

[Feck]

Look there must be a God because My fragile little ego would just shit itself If I thought that I was not 'special ' and since there are lots of people just like me then god must decide on how to judge us on a weird set of counter-intuitive rules about God loving me more than others or what I'm allowed to do with my genitals ,or for that matter with the genitals of other people . Funny that the idea's of god that seem to have stuck are ........... FUCKING STUPID !