British folk across the pond, question for you:

[AshtonBlack]

The American constitution is a noble and vital document. With much to admire in it. It just seems, to my poor biased perception, that people have forgotten the aim of it. Educate the citizens so they may understand it.

Obama, seems to be one that has read it.

As to the special relationship. We had that as soon as you chose English as your main language.

[rachelbean]

The American constitution is a noble and vital document. With much to admire in it. It just seems, to my poor biased perception, that people have forgotten the aim of it. Educate the citizens so they may understand it.

Obama, seems to be one that has read it.

He should know it pretty well since he taught constitutional law until he became a senator!

And yes, what most Americans like to do is hear someone else quote something for the constitution that sounds like it supports their position and repeat it with authority even though they actually understand very little of it.

[Martok]

The American constitution is a noble and vital document. With much to admire in it. It just seems, to my poor biased perception, that people have forgotten the aim of it. Educate the citizens so they may understand it.

Obama, seems to be one that has read it.

He should know it pretty well since he taught constitutional law until he became a senator!

According to the tea bagger queen, Sarah Palin, America needs a leader, not a constitutional professor.

[Hermit]

What exactly is so special about the US - UK relationship? The US made Great Britain repay every cent - plus interest - that it had spent to help its 'special' friend during WWII. The 'favour' was not reciprocated in Korea or Vietnam. Another manifestation of the 'special' relationship was when Blair became Bush's deputy sheriff (and Howard became the deputy sheriff's dog) when the US decided that the oil reserves in Iraq were too precious to leave in control of the dictator it once supported to the tune of many millions of dollars, not to mention mountains of military equipment.

In short, there is no such thing as a 'special relationship' between countries. Everything is based on cold, hard-nosed, calculating Realpolitik. Look it up. Machiavelli, of course, would have wholeheartedly approved of the very term "special relationship" as another wonderful device to manipulate and deceive the common people. He just didn't need to think of it because at the time he wrote The Prince, the opinions of the masses had next to no impact on what the rulers could or could not do. They could be safely ignored then, but nowadays they need to be "shaped".

[FBM]

At the end of the Korean War, S. Korea was barely recognizable as a country. It had practically no functioning economy (and not much prospect of getting one) or infrastructure and only a puppet government. The US gained an important strategic foothold in NE Asia as a result of their involvement, which is what they were after in the first place, and S. Korea is obliged to let them stay. The US sure as hell didn't get involved out of their love for the Koreans. There aren't all that many Americans even today who could tell you where Korea is.

The Republic of S. Vietnam disappeared in '75, and I don't think asking Charlie to pay for the US fucking up their country for over a decade would have got much of a positive response.

I agree, though, that the whole concept of a 'special relationship' is just more Realpolitik. It's a mutual hand-job scripted for the cameras. It'd be scrapped as soon as it was no longer of use.

[Hermit]

the whole concept of a 'special relationship' is just more Realpolitik. It's a mutual hand-job scripted for the cameras. It'd be scrapped as soon as it was no longer of use.

That's pretty much what i was trying to say. Thanks for putting it in a nutshell.

[FBM]

the whole concept of a 'special relationship' is just more Realpolitik. It's a mutual hand-job scripted for the cameras. It'd be scrapped as soon as it was no longer of use.

That's pretty much what i was trying to say. Thanks for putting it in a nutshell.

[CJ]

Things will be very different once we have President Palin and they have Prime Minister Clegg.

Particularly as Clegg is an open atheist.

[Tigger]

Things will be very different once we have President Palin and they have Prime Minister Clegg.

Particularly as Clegg is an open atheist.

What about the others? Do you know their orientation? Save me looking!

[CJ]

Things will be very different once we have President Palin and they have Prime Minister Clegg.

Particularly as Clegg is an open atheist.

What about the others? Do you know their orientation? Save me looking!

Both god botherers I think. Whether they are serious about it or cultural christians I don't know.

[Animavore]

I loved when Bill Bailey said the Americans were like the bullies of the world and the Brits were like the kid standing behind the bully going "So neh." (or something).

I'm with Paco. I largely ignore politics. There is no party that represents what I think. Fuck the scurrilous lot of them.

The only time I vote is for referendum issues like divorce or abortion.

[The Dawktor]

I won't be happy until on the ballot paper there is a 'none of the above' box to vote for!

[Coito ergo sum]

There was some talk months ago about toning down or rethinking the "special relationship", not scrapping it altogether. The support for this relationship is for all intents and purposes nil amongst the general public.

My personal take on it is America tells us to bend over and shut up; and we do. That seems to be the majority opinion outside politics. I often wonder if we hate American politicians more than our own sometimes.

Hmmm... that's interesting to me. My take on the American view, in general, of the UK is very favorable overall. I was not aware that Brits felt abused by the US.

[Coito ergo sum]

The American constitution is a noble and vital document. With much to admire in it. It just seems, to my poor biased perception, that people have forgotten the aim of it. Educate the citizens so they may understand it.

That's true. There is no one aim, but I think a major derailment of American education was when they deemphasized "civics" and "government" classes in the late 70s, early 80s. Kids graduate high school now and they have no idea how to cast a vote, let alone how the government works.

Obama, seems to be one that has read it. [/quote]

I'm sure he has. Every law student takes "Constitutional Law" in law school. The question is not whether one reads it, but how one interprets it.

As to the special relationship. We had that as soon as you chose English as your main language.

Actually, English is only the de facto language of the United States. We have no official language.

Some state (but only in the last 20 years) have started adopting official languages.

[Coito ergo sum]

The American constitution is a noble and vital document. With much to admire in it. It just seems, to my poor biased perception, that people have forgotten the aim of it. Educate the citizens so they may understand it.

Obama, seems to be one that has read it.

He should know it pretty well since he taught constitutional law until he became a senator!

And yes, what most Americans like to do is hear someone else quote something for the constitution that sounds like it supports their position and repeat it with authority even though they actually understand very little of it.

I forget who said it, but it's true: most people think the constitution expressly permits everything with which they agree, and prohibits everything with which they do not agree.