The subjective observer is a fictional character

[Surendra Darathy]

We have access to 'ourselves'.

And yet you agree that we do not know ourselves, in identity or nature,

Which is not to say that we cannot know ourselves.

Which would then solve exactly what problem? Then you go on to say:

What greater ego trip is there than believing you are god?

The belief is that there is only God. And there is nothing in that for the human ego. Absolutely nothing.

We're not even serving God. There's nothing to do, and, really, nothing to know about ourselves after that. So the point of your whole screed is to convince us there's nothing else to know about ourselves. No, of course that's not what you mean. What you mean is to have someone swallow that little bit of Kool-Aid, before you begin serving up the sewage of what all else there is to know about God, about our true nature as pure divine energy. Oh, fuck me, but this theology is just such a tedious, tedious little wank.

I entirely agree that this gets rid of the problem of the human ego. Now, what was the problem caused by the human ego? Yeah, I've been here before with this one, that somehow the problem will be solved when all the little false egos running around realise that they are all only part of God. What was the problem that this solves, again? Why does God like to play this hide-and-seek game with its Creation? Something to do to while away the weary eons?

The only access we have is to our perceptions (experiences, if you prefer). To doubt them so totally as you do is to deny everything and make life a lie.

If the underlying essence of 'us' is God, then it is God being us. How, therefore, could God not have access to itself? When one believes that one's reality is as 'human, in the world', it is hardly any wonder that said individual has no access to the reality of being God, is it?
Having access to God is to truly believe that one is essentially God. It's a profound state of mind, as opposed to another realm where one is free to move to.

The underlying problem is being lost in the world - immersed within the human ego.

And finding our way out of the world is supposed to solve what problem, exactly? What will happen when we all realise we're just part of God? Will you finally win an argument on the internet?

Emotions emerge from oneself. They are very real in that they are how 'the one that exists' feels.

We have emotions, and they arise within ourselves. So? Emotions arise from one of those parts of us we have very little access to. It is surely some part that knowns things unconsciously. The model accounts for that.

Your model states that 'we' are fictional observers - nonentities, essentially. Yet, I know as a matter of fact that my emotional responses to the world are mine. I control them. I can change them. 'I' can be the master of my own emotions. Pray tell, how can a "fictional observer" have so much power to effect his own demeanour?

Those that believe they are specialy loved by god come a distant second to that.

There is only God. There is no room in that realisation for favouritism.

How can one be more apart from reality than to believe that he creates it for himself?

How can one be more apart from reality than to believe that he is a puppet of it, having no essential existence in and of himself?

And what was the problem, again? To be masters of our own emotions? And that solves what problem, exactly? It's actually an interesting question as to why some people choose this route chasing the fantasy of controlling their emotions. Let's assume they do it (though I've never met a CosmoCon who demonstrated the yield of this approach). What then? What was the point, again? Oh, yeah. Controlling one's emotions. Then one can be... serene. And what?

You do realise, James, that the only problem you're trying to solve is that of making everyone's discourse just like yours. I think if that were to happen, your fantasy bubble of us all being part of god would never have to be pricked.

And you led up to this with 20 pages in this thread, and lots more in several other threads trying to argue that our apparent brains are just decorations? And that should convince us that we are all part of God? No smiley exists that can express my astonishment. That's quite an investment, James. I think you're going to have to stick with it.

Where are all the testimonials from those who got in on the ground floor with you? Oh, wait. They have no egos, and that's why they're at peace, and you're here arguing interminably with people. It's the problem every God-botherer (well, OK, skeptic-botherer) faces in going out to preach peace to the skeptics and gets conflict for his trouble. Quod erat demonstratum.

[SpeedOfSound]

If you want to believe that you are part of the universe go read a god damned science book. It's right there in black and white. We're part of the universe.

All this extra argument against science, and in particular, science of the mind, must lead to some other idea. What the hell is it?

[Surendra Darathy]

All this extra argument against science, and in particular, science of the mind, must lead to some other idea. What the hell is it?

Xamonas got it in one take.

Metaphysics is necessary for people that find the hard work involved in learning to understand science a bit too much for them. I mean, surely, reality can't be that difficult can it? All we need is imagination - don't dream it, be it - you know?

It's really just the existential dilemma. If it all gets too much, shedding one's stake in it via woo is one way to pass the time till the lights go out. Putting the lights out for oneself is another. I refer to this as the "non-viable" alternative. I just can't figure out why more god-botherers are not in a screaming hurry to merge with the Cosmic All again. They're not really different in their regard of the dilemma. We all have to stay busy.