Metaphysics is necessary

[charlou]

Is this brief definition of metaphysics from Wiki accurate?

Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy that investigates principles of reality transcending those of any particular science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics

Oxymoronic, isn't it.

It's only "oxymoronic" if one considers science to be of any metaphysical value. That is, it's only oxymoronic if you haven't got a clue about metaphysics.

I was thinking... "What the hell transcends science?"

I was thinking, "principles of reality transcending anything?" Reality incorporates everything that is real, including science. Science is our tool for discovering what reality consists of and how it works.

[Thinking Aloud]

Piles and piles of miles and miles of words strung together, with all the Pyles and Miles dead certain that they mean something.

Ah but first we have to argue about the meaning of "dead" "certain" and both "some" and "thing"

What's the ontological significance, precisely, of 'of', anyway? I think we have to start with the function words first, as they are the foundation that makes the content words coherent.

In empirical plain-speak:

I'm more than that. I know I am. At least, I think I must be.

[GrahamH]

I was thinking... "What the hell transcends science?"

Imagination, in some senses. Metaphysics is imagining what could be, however, science transcends imagination in many ways.

I have no doubt that in reality the future will be vastly more surprising than anything I can imagine. Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.

[hackenslash]

It's not about transcending science, but transcending particular branches of it. That's why cosmology is seen as a metaphysic, because it transcends astronomy and astrophysics, but deals with principles central to both. The same could be said of abiogenesis, because it transcends chemistry and biology, but deals with principles central to both.

Of course, that's given the classical definition of 'metaphysics'. The commonly accepted current definition mostly amounts to imagination.

[jamest]

Science is the study of the order inherent within the experienced world. Science has no access to the reality of the world, which means that it can tell us nothing about it, least of all confirm its existence.
If people here think that science suffices to tell us all about 'reality', then they really don't have a clue about metaphysics.

[GrahamH]

Science is the study of the order inherent within the experienced world. Science has no access to the reality of the world, which means that it can tell us nothing about it, least of all confirm its existence.
If people here think that science suffices to tell us all about 'reality', then they really don't have a clue about metaphysics.

What access does metaphysics have to Reality?

[Hermit]

Science is the study of the order inherent within the experienced world. Science has no access to the reality of the world, which means that it can tell us nothing about it, least of all confirm its existence.
If people here think that science suffices to tell us all about 'reality', then they really don't have a clue about metaphysics.

What access does metaphysics have to Reality?

Oh... uhm... err... 'Inner Knowledge'? You know, 'Real' Reality - The Essential Stuff - can be known. No, wait, we actually just make it up using the criterion called 'that's what I imagine it to be', and simply assert it is The Truth™.

[Surendra Darathy]

Science is the study of the order inherent within the experienced world. Science has no access to the reality of the world, which means that it can tell us nothing about it, least of all confirm its existence.
If people here think that science suffices to tell us all about 'reality', then they really don't have a clue about metaphysics.

What access does metaphysics have to Reality?

Oh... uhm... err... 'Inner Knowledge'? You know, 'Real' Reality - The Essential Stuff - can be known. No, wait, we actually just make it up using the criterion called 'that's what I imagine it to be', and simply assert it is The Truth™.

Yeah, fine. I agree with all that, but it tells me very little "of" how metaphysics "is" necessary.

I also like that bit about figuring out the meaning of "of" before we figure out the meaning of "is". I think in this case it will have something to do with the old "given" from "logic".

Metaphysics, among other things, is the art of "giving" something for awhile, and then taking it back when it doesn't lead to sex on the first date.

You can make anything "necessary". You just have to blow out your brains if you don't get a pony for Christmas.

I know "necessary" is a loaded word from "logic". Metaphysics is "compulsory", at least for certain types of compulsion disorders.

I simply cannot be bothered to discuss 'God' with people that don't even understand the metaphysical impotency of the empirical realm (science).

In some cases it is much more "important" to dethrone science than it is to show the effectiveness of metaphysics in spoon-bending. "Metaphysical impotency" sounds like it might merit an interesting discussion of spoons that are only metaphysically bent. That should straighten out all those empiricists, and give them all a "hard" problem.

[charlou]

Speaking of hard, I like spoons.

[Surendra Darathy]

Speaking of hard, I like spoons.

Everyone should have a metaphysical position on the subject of spoons. I call it "The Spoon Position".

[Feck]

There is no spoon .

[hackenslash]

Speaking of hard, I like spoons.

Everyone should have a metaphysical position on the subject of spoons. I call it "The Spoon Position".

Hmm. I have something else I call 'The Spoon Position', but I think we might be talking about different things.

[Surendra Darathy]

Speaking of hard, I like spoons.

Everyone should have a metaphysical position on the subject of spoons. I call it "The Spoon Position".

Hmm. I have something else I call 'The Spoon Position', but I think we might be talking about different things.

That's the "empirical spoon position", as opposed to the "metaphysical spoon position".

In the empirical spoon position, metaphysics is not necessary. QED.

[Twiglet]

Speaking of hard, I like spoons.

Everyone should have a metaphysical position on the subject of spoons. I call it "The Spoon Position".

Hmm. I have something else I call 'The Spoon Position', but I think we might be talking about different things.

That's the "empirical spoon position", as opposed to the "metaphysical spoon position".

In the empirical spoon position, metaphysics is not necessary. QED.

What if the empirical spoon position comes with yoghurt?

[jamest]

SPO
O
N

A bent spoon. Any more requests?