Are you too angry about religion?

[Coito ergo sum]

<snip>

Do the rest of you have this problem?

To an extent. If I voice my increasingly vehement opposition to religion, I'll be looked on as a whining, strident atheist. The thing is, though, the longer I live the more intolerant of religion I am becoming. I'm not obnoxious about it, but I think it is an enormous bane and an unmatched negative influence on mankind - and how can you not sound strident when you express that?

Even my equally (and lifelong) atheist ex-husband thought I was overboard with my opinions, but then, he's an accomodationist and a twat.

There are ways to respond to a theist without being strident.

One of the best short responses when you get into a situation where people are asking you why you are an atheist, you can just say, "because, while I may be missing something, I have never been able to distinguish religious belief from make believe. Could you explain how you make that distinction?" Most people are stumped, and the best responses amount to "I feel it," "I've had personal experiences that I can't prove to you," or "I just know it," but more commonly, the response is something to the effect of "oh, come on...it's not the same as make-believe!" (to which you can respond - well, I'm not saying it's the same - I'm saying I have not been able to make the distinction - can you help explain it to me? - they won't be able to).

In my experience, saying something like that would be regarded as very dismissive and sarcastic. Or it would if I said it. Maybe it's my delivery.

It is definitely in the delivery, for sure. You can ask them if they want the short answer or the long answer. Invariably, they will ask for the short answer. Then you fire in the "can't distinguish between it and make believe" line in all serious - and immediately ask them to clarify it for you. Humbly admit that you don't know it all, and the believer may well be right - all you need is for them to tell you how you are supposed to distinguish their belief from make believe. It comes across as such a simple task....but, they will find it impossible to do.

[Samuel]

I'm a closet atheist, sad to say.

Sorry to hear it. Curious ... why in the closet?

Thanks for the empathy, but I must clarify that it's not a completely closed closet, as my wife is also an atheist :-) Mainly to avoid Pappa's dilemma: "The problem is, I find that my moderate religious inlaws and my old college friends and similar (who probably aren't even religious) all now regard me as the angry ranting atheist with a chip on his shoulder. "

Most of my close relatives are Christian, and as much as I'd like to discuss theological issues with them in a rational manner, I feel that it will be impossible. Therefore I have chosen the cowardly option to mainly just avoid certain topics on Christmas dinners et cetera. But I feel infinitely lucky that my wife is also an atheist, my best friend, my lover, mother of our children and so on. My family (meaning me, wife + the kids) is a self-contained fully functional unit in a dysfunctional world Plus we have some close friends, unrelated, that share our doubts about the divine.

And now you know us lot of god forsaken Ratz

(With the voice of Borat) Yes, is nice here. I like. The internets is nice.

[charlou]

(With the voice of Borat) Yes, is nice here. I like. The internets is nice.

hehehe ... there'd be a ? inflection at the end ...

[JimC]

I have been talking to my liberal catholic friends, and they are disgusted with the pope and the hierarchy, and say so publically. Deep down, they would like to create a reformed catholic church, but can't see it happening. Some will drift away from the church, others will stay, but ignore most of the conservative teaching. It would be pointless me getting strident with them (that's their view of RD and similar figures, aggressive, strident atheists), but they accept that I see no need of a god to explain the universe, and that, in the end, they cannot prove the existence of their god, faith is all they've got... Anyway, woo aside, they're good people...

In return, I can say that I understand that their faith is an important and personal aspect of their lives, and we can agree to differ...

[Pappa]

I have been talking to my liberal catholic friends, and they are disgusted with the pope and the hierarchy, and say so publically. Deep down, they would like to create a reformed catholic church, but can't see it happening. Some will drift away from the church, others will stay, but ignore most of the conservative teaching. It would be pointless me getting strident with them (that's their view of RD and similar figures, aggressive, strident atheists), but they accept that I see no need of a god to explain the universe, and that, in the end, they cannot prove the existence of their god, faith is all they've got... Anyway, woo aside, they're good people...

They are Australian Jim... naturally irreverent, liberal and suspicious of authority figures.

[Trolldor]

naturally irreverent, liberal and suspicious of authority figures.

*cough*

You'd be surprised at how willing most Australians are to follow blindly the man with the prettiest hat.

[JimC]

naturally irreverent, liberal and suspicious of authority figures.

*cough*

You'd be surprised at how willing most Australians are to follow blindly the man with the prettiest hat.

True in some ways, but these days there is a definite majority of catholics (IMO) that detests our good Cardinal Pell, and he's got a pretty hat...

[Hermit]

naturally irreverent, liberal and suspicious of authority figures.

*cough*

You'd be surprised at how willing most Australians are to follow blindly the man with the prettiest hat.

That would be John Howard. Before him Malcolm Fraser and before him Bob Menzies. Between the three of them they told us what to do the majority of the time during the past 65 years, promoting the stodgiest, obedient, petty-bourgeois suburbanite values under the sun, and we kept voting them back in again and again and again and again and...

Don't fall for that threadbare myth, Pappa. It's just that: a fucking myth.

[Pappa]

naturally irreverent, liberal and suspicious of authority figures.

*cough*

You'd be surprised at how willing most Australians are to follow blindly the man with the prettiest hat.

That would be John Howard. Before him Malcolm Fraser and before him Bob Menzies. Between the three of them they told us what to do the majority of the time during the past 65 years, promoting the stodgiest, obedient, petty-bourgeois suburbanite values under the sun, and we kept voting them back in again and again and again and again and...

Don't fall for that threadbare myth, Pappa. It's just that: a fucking myth.

Damn, and there's me thinking Aussie's are born cool!

[mandy]

After a degree in Philosophy, I've found it much easier to keep my mouth shut when I disagree with a religious person.

what the...
you telling me, you got a degree in philosophy and still missed God? how can you not spot someone that big?
oh man... what the hell were you thinking of in those philosophy classes. i bet you were concentrating on the ladies.
come on mate, be honest.

[Hermit]

naturally irreverent, liberal and suspicious of authority figures.

*cough*

You'd be surprised at how willing most Australians are to follow blindly the man with the prettiest hat.

That would be John Howard. Before him Malcolm Fraser and before him Bob Menzies. Between the three of them they told us what to do the majority of the time during the past 65 years, promoting the stodgiest, obedient, petty-bourgeois suburbanite values under the sun, and we kept voting them back in again and again and again and again and...

Don't fall for that threadbare myth, Pappa. It's just that: a fucking myth.

Damn, and there's me thinking Aussies are born cool!

We are, actually. Like everybody else on earth. Then conditioning sets in.

Man is born free and everywhere he is in chains. - Jean-Jacques Rousseau

[Coito ergo sum]

After a degree in Philosophy, I've found it much easier to keep my mouth shut when I disagree with a religious person.

what the...
you telling me, you got a degree in philosophy and still missed God? how can you not spot someone that big?
oh man... what the hell were you thinking of in those philosophy classes. i bet you were concentrating on the ladies.
come on mate, be honest.

Things that don't exist are not "big."

[Tigger]

After a degree in Philosophy, I've found it much easier to keep my mouth shut when I disagree with a religious person.

what the...
you telling me, you got a degree in philosophy and still missed God? how can you not spot someone that big?
oh man... what the hell were you thinking of in those philosophy classes. i bet you were concentrating on the ladies.
come on mate, be honest.

It's called education. Try it sometime. God? Did you mean Allah? Your "mate" up there will be well hacked off that you got his name wrong. Peace be unto ... HE DOESN'T EXIST.

[mandy]

Tigger:
It's called education. Try it sometime.

what? so you agree with me that concentrating on ladies is called education?
now you talking mate.
you learn a lot by just listening to the women. the practical teaches you even more. trust me.

God? Did you mean Allah?

ofcourse i meant Allah; which other God is real. Allah is the only true God out there.

Your "mate" up there will be well hacked off that you got his name wrong.

who you talking about now tigger? whos gonna be hacked by who.

Peace be unto ... HE DOESN'T EXIST.

excuse me mate. Mohamed peace be upon him does exist, alright. are you on weed or something.

Coito ergo sum:
Things that don't exist are not "big."

i know that. duh. i also know things that do exists can be small as well, such as your willy.

[Tigger]

Tigger:
It's called education. Try it sometime.

what? so you agree with me that concentrating on ladies is called education?
now you talking mate.
you learn a lot by just listening to the women. the practical teaches you even more. trust me.

God? Did you mean Allah?

ofcourse i meant Allah; which other God is real. Allah is the only true God out there.

Your "mate" up there will be well hacked off that you got his name wrong.

who you talking about now tigger? whos gonna be hacked by who.

Peace be unto ... HE DOESN'T EXIST.

excuse me mate. Mohamed peace be upon him does exist, alright. are you on weed or something.

Mandelson, I will draw your attention to a post I made in reply to one of your topics of verbal diarrhea.
HERE: ----------> http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 75#p429396
You clearly don't read or absorb the replies made by others, but I'm asking you again to stop calling me mate. I find your opinions offensive, and I think if I met you, I would find you offensive. I therefore am not your mate, so stop calling me it.