Time Explained

[colubridae]

Hold your hands up, colubridae. See that gap between them? That's a space, and you can see it. Now waggle those hands. That's motion, and you can see that too. But can you see time? No. Spot the difference?

Can't see gravity

Can't see the electordynamic force

None of these exist?

Fuck me I must be in the matri

Drop a pencil. It falls down. That's gravity. Push two magnets towards each other, and snick, they leap together. that's the magnetic force. Rub two balloons and see them repel. That's the electrostatic force, another aspect of the electromagnetic force. You can see it working. The evidence is there. In similar vein, you can see a space, and you can see motion, but you can't see time. There is no evidence for time flowing, or for travelling through time. Anybody who believes this is on a par with the creationists.

Yep! knew god would be in there somewhere...
Never knew I was a creationist.
It's a bit of a shock to mrs. colubridae. She's had to open another bottle.


Sorry I saw a pencil fall. I didn't see gravity. Just like you don't see time.

[colubridae]

Hold your hands up, colubridae. See that gap between them? That's a space, and you can see it. Now waggle those hands. That's motion, and you can see that too. But can you see time? No. Spot the difference?

I thought about this as well.

I don't see space between my hands. What I see is the other side of my kitchen, but I don't see space. Just as you don't see time.

Can you help with this?


edit speeellink

[AshtonBlack]

Hold your hands up, colubridae. See that gap between them? That's a space, and you can see it. Now waggle those hands. That's motion, and you can see that too. But can you see time? No. Spot the difference?

Can't see gravity

Can't see the electordynamic force

None of these exist?

Fuck me I must be in the matri

Drop a pencil. It falls down. That's gravity. Push two magnets towards each other, and snick, they leap together. that's the magnetic force. Rub two balloons and see them repel. That's the electrostatic force, another aspect of the electromagnetic force. You can see it working. The evidence is there. In similar vein, you can see a space, and you can see motion, but you can't see time. There is no evidence for time flowing, or for travelling through time. Anybody who believes this is on a par with the creationists.

Interesting, if time doesn't flow, how do you explain the "arrow" of entropy?

[Friday]

Yeah entropy - but isnt that 'arrow' of time just an emergent property of the second law of dynamics?

Its the dissipation of heat and the relative motion of the objects dissipating that heat that is the cause.

I am getting the impression the OP is talking about time as purely a relationship between things - not a thing in and of itself. I am a bit tipsy so it is hard to get my head around some of the stuff...

[colubridae]

Yeah entropy - but isnt that 'arrow' of time just an emergent property of the second law of dynamics?

Its the dissipation of heat and the relative motion of the objects dissipating that heat that is the cause.

I am getting the impression the OP is talking about time as purely a relationship between things - not a thing in and of itself. I am a bit tipsy so it is hard to get my head around some of the stuff...

Fuck me, friday.

I think he's talking about things that don't exist if you can't see them. Like time and space.

You can't see them, so he says they don't exist. That's his words BTW, not mine.

Drink more it will help.

[AshtonBlack]

Yeah entropy - but isnt that 'arrow' of time just an emergent property of the second law of dynamics?

Its the dissipation of heat and the relative motion of the objects dissipating that heat that is the cause.

I am getting the impression the OP is talking about time as purely a relationship between things - not a thing in and of itself. I am a bit tipsy so it is hard to get my head around some of the stuff...

From the wiki about T-Reversal and T-asymmetries.

"It is important to stress that this time reversal violation is unrelated to the second law of thermodynamics, because due to the conservation of the CPT symmetry, the effect of time reversal is to rename particles as antiparticles and vice versa. Thus the second law of thermodynamics is thought to originate in the initial conditions in the universe."

My point was that there are processes in the universe that are not T-symmetrical. Therefore it follows that time has an arrow in this universe.

[Farsight]

Interesting, if time doesn't flow, how do you explain the "arrow" of entropy?

The same was as usual, via statistical mechanics, but by replacing the concept of "time flowing" with "motion occurring". Start with an ordered system and introduce motion, and the chances are that it will move to a less ordered state. So there's an "arrow of disorder". People tend to talk about "the arrow of time" but check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy#The_arrow_of_time and see this paragraph:

"Entropy is the only quantity in the physical sciences that seems to imply a particular direction for time, sometimes called an arrow of time. As we go "forward" in time, the second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system tends to increase or remain the same; it will not decrease. Hence, from one perspective, entropy measurement is thought of as a kind of clock".

Here there's a little confusion, in that it mentions a particular direction for time, but then puts "forward" in quotes to warn that it's not a literal direction. The reference to a clock is however very important. A clock "clocks up" motion. All clocks count some kind of regular motion. This is true of sundials and pendulums, and mechanical, electronic (eg quartz), or atomic clocks. So the arrow of entropy is indicating the result of motion. The system has more chance of moving to a less ordered state because there's far more of them.

[Farsight]

From the wiki about T-Reversal and T-asymmetries.

"It is important to stress that this time reversal violation is unrelated to the second law of thermodynamics, because due to the conservation of the CPT symmetry, the effect of time reversal is to rename particles as antiparticles and vice versa.

It's a motion reversal, associated with chirality. Here's a depiction of an electron, with the dark line depicting what is essentially electron angular momentum:



A positron would have the arrowheads going the other way. The motion through space is "going the other way".

My point was that there are processes in the universe that are not T-symmetrical. Therefore it follows that time has an arrow in this universe.

Just adjust this a little to say entropy has an arrow associated with motion, and time is a cumulative measure of motion, and you've still got an arrow. I suppose you could still call it the arrow of time if you preferred, but it's a conceptual arrow associated with motion and statistical results rather than with the literal "flow" of time or motion "through" time.

[colubridae]

Interesting, if time doesn't flow, how do you explain the "arrow" of entropy?

The same was as usual, via statistical mechanics, but by replacing the concept of "time flowing" with "motion occurring". Start with an ordered system and introduce motion, and the chances are that it will move to a less ordered state. So there's an "arrow of disorder". People tend to talk about "the arrow of time" but check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy#The_arrow_of_time and see this paragraph:

"Entropy is the only quantity in the physical sciences that seems to imply a particular direction for time, sometimes called an arrow of time. As we go "forward" in time, the second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system tends to increase or remain the same; it will not decrease. Hence, from one perspective, entropy measurement is thought of as a kind of clock".

Here there's a little confusion, in that it mentions a particular direction for time, but then puts "forward" in quotes to warn that it's not a literal direction. The reference to a clock is however very important. A clock "clocks up" motion. All clocks count some kind of regular motion. This is true of sundials and pendulums, and mechanical, electronic (eg quartz), or atomic clocks. So the arrow of entropy is indicating the result of motion. The system has more chance of moving to a less ordered state because there's far more of them.

This is piffle. You are using the fact that wiki (a useful but by no means guarantor of ultimate scientific knowledge) placed the word ‘forward’ in double-quotes.
What if they had used single quotes?



Your whole point in this post (other than re-iterating previously posted piffle) is that wikiwank put the word forward in quotes.
Wiki may equally well have used this to indicate they meant movement through time rather than spatial movement.
That they were using a word normally associated with space to define a temporal direction.
To use that to bolster your ‘theory’ (see I used quotes) is fucking ludicrous.
And is a specious bit of legerdemain.


As in 'I can’t see time therefore it doesn’t exist.'

As I said earlier 'I can’t see space either does that mean it doesn’t exist?'



"opus tantum tantillium tempus"
Translation - "fuck me I can smell Jesus in here somewhere"

[colubridae]

From the wiki about T-Reversal and T-asymmetries.

"It is important to stress that this time reversal violation is unrelated to the second law of thermodynamics, because due to the conservation of the CPT symmetry, the effect of time reversal is to rename particles as antiparticles and vice versa.

It's a motion reversal, associated with chirality. Here's a depiction of an electron, with the dark line depicting what is essentially electron angular momentum:



A positron would have the arrowheads going the other way. The motion through space is "going the other way".

My point was that there are processes in the universe that are not T-symmetrical. Therefore it follows that time has an arrow in this universe.

Just adjust this a little to say entropy has an arrow associated with motion, and time is a cumulative measure of motion, and you've still got an arrow. I suppose you could still call it the arrow of time if you preferred, but it's a conceptual arrow associated with motion and statistical results rather than with the literal "flow" of time or motion "through" time.

Please give attribution for the diagram. It’s difficult to argue it’s contents if you take it out of context.

[Trolldor]

NO
TIME CUBE IS TRUTH
YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID
http://www.timecube.com/

[colubridae]

If you watch this video you will see an interesting€ feature of minkowski spacetime.

Ignore the cheese bit, the science part occurs at about 90 seconds into the video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuNKyC8v ... re=related[/youtube][/quote]

[Farsight]

Please give attribution for the diagram. It’s difficult to argue it’s contents if you take it out of context.

It's from Is the electron a photon with a toroidal topology?" Williamson and van der Mark, Annales de la Fondation Louis de Broglie, Volume 22, no.2, 133 (1997). See http://www.cybsoc.org/electron.pdf and a further draft paper at http://www.cybsoc.org/electremdense2008v4.pdf.

[colubridae]

Please give attribution for the diagram. It’s difficult to argue it’s contents if you take it out of context.

It's from Is the electron a photon with a toroidal topology?" Williamson and van der Mark, Annales de la Fondation Louis de Broglie, Volume 22, no.2, 133 (1997). See http://www.cybsoc.org/electron.pdf and a further draft paper at http://www.cybsoc.org/electremdense2008v4.pdf.

Thanks. Like captain oats I may be gone a long time....

BTW can you answer the question?

Why is the speed of light constant in any....

[colubridae]

In the meantime

Hold your hands up, colubridae. See that gap between them? That's a space, and you can see it. Now waggle those hands. That's motion, and you can see that too. But can you see time? No. Spot the difference?

I'll repeat:-

I held my hands up. But I couldn't see space in the gap. I did see the far side of my kitchen. I waggled my hands, Still didn't see space. Things came into view and then out of view again as I waggled my hands. I saw my hands change position – move. But I didn't see space. Just like you said you can't see time. Spot the similarity?



paraphrasing your words "I can't see time so it doesn't exist".

By that logic space doesn't exist either!