response to emerging independent science on the 9/11 attacks

[Tigger]

Oops - double post

Doppelganger. It's a conspiracy.

[Animavore]

Oops - double post

I call it a cover up. What really went on in this post?

[Trolldor]

Obviously FUWF is a grey mole hired by the Freemasons.

[Coito ergo sum]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QilSHm0L ... eature=sub[/youtube]

[Tigger]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QilSHm0L ... eature=sub[/youtube]

And now I imagine that's the last we'll hear from the "Truthers" on this subject.
I wish.

[GrayToneS]

You can actually see the plane's tail fin in one of the Pentagon security videos of the impact.

I'd like to see that.
Can you provide a link?

[Coito ergo sum]

You can actually see the plane's tail fin in one of the Pentagon security videos of the impact.

I'd like to see that.
Can you provide a link?

I haven't seen that. But, the evidence is overwhelming that the hijacked plane hit the Pentagon. Over-frickin-whelming.

Pentagon employee Frank Probst was walking across the Pentagon grounds as Flight 77 approached, heading directly for him. He threw himself to the ground and the plane passed directly over him. Probst saw the tip of the plane’s right wing strike and cut through the generator, pushing it aside at an angle. The right engine hit the chain link fence, creating the hole in it. After the crash, tiny pieces of plane debris fell around Probst. (U.S. Marine Corps)

Probst also witnessed the plane’s left engine, which was closer to the ground, strike a low concrete wall surrounding an outside ventilation exhaust structure, causing a puff of white dust. The hole it created in the wall can be seen in the bottom left of this photograph. (© Daryl Donley/Library of Congress)

After the impact, debris from the aircraft was strewn across the Pentagon grounds.

Loose Change claims (at 17:54) that the “official explanation is that the intense heat from the jet fuel vaporized the entire plane” that struck the Pentagon, and argues that because this is impossible, the “official” story can not be trusted.

The video is arguing from a mistaken premise. The plane disintegrated due to its impact with the Pentagon at 853 kilometers (530 miles) per hour, but it did not “vaporize.” Emergency response personnel reported seeing hundreds of pieces of the aircraft on the grounds outside the Pentagon. Parts of the plane, including engine parts and landing gear, were photographed inside the building. (© AP Images)

http://photos.america.gov/galleries/amg ... _Pentagon/

Review the facts
Size of 757 matches the initial size of hole in the building - somewhere between 13 and 16 feet (757 is 13 feet wide/high)
Rims found in building match those of a 757
Small turbine engine outside is an APU
Same engine has been clearly stated to not match a Global Hawk engine
Blue seats from 757 laying on ground in photos
Part of "American" fuselage logo visible in more than 1 photo
Engine parts photographed inside match a Rolls-Royce RB211
Structural components photographed in wreckage match Boeing paint primer schemes
Large deisel generator in front of building hit by a large heavy object
Large deisel engine outside is spun towards the building - could not be result of bomb blast or missile explosion
Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner
Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner hit the Pentagon
60+ bodies, matching the passenger list and flight crew roster identified and returned to families from Pentagon wreckage

[Tigger]

FWIW, my wife's cousin in the States saw it hit the building. Or at least he says he did. He says some of his friends died too.

I think the word "science" is misplaced in the op. Bullshit, maybe. Jeez.

[Galaxian]

You can actually see the plane's tail fin in one of the Pentagon security videos of the impact.

I'd like to see that.
Can you provide a link?

I haven't seen that. But, the evidence is overwhelming that the hijacked plane hit the Pentagon. Over-frickin-whelming.

On the contrary, the evidence is overwhelming that American Airlines 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon. The FBI even admitted it! But keep on trolling out the same tired mantra, even though the authorities have stepped back from it.

[Pappa]

You can actually see the plane's tail fin in one of the Pentagon security videos of the impact.

I'd like to see that.
Can you provide a link?

I haven't seen that. But, the evidence is overwhelming that the hijacked plane hit the Pentagon. Over-frickin-whelming.

On the contrary, the evidence is overwhelming that American Airlines 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon. The FBI even admitted it! But keep on trolling out the same tired mantra, even though the authorities have stepped back from it.

What made the big hole?

[Galaxian]

You can actually see the plane's tail fin in one of the Pentagon security videos of the impact.

I'd like to see that.
Can you provide a link?

I haven't seen that. But, the evidence is overwhelming that the hijacked plane hit the Pentagon. Over-frickin-whelming.

On the contrary, the evidence is overwhelming that American Airlines 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon. The FBI even admitted it! But keep on trolling out the same tired mantra, even though the authorities have stepped back from it.

What made the big hole?

Possibly a poltergeist, probably a bunker busting cruise missile. It certainly was not AA77. Little evidence of that.

[Pappa]

The FBI even admitted it!

What did the FBI say exactly?

[Trolldor]

The FBI even admitted it!

What did the FBI say exactly?

Some guy with an Albanian accent and "FBI" written in crayon on a piece of paper said it was true.

[Galaxian]

The FBI even admitted it!

What did the FBI say exactly?

There were 84 video surveillance cameras in the vicinity that had their tapes quickly confiscated. The tapes were never returned, except for 5 lousy frames from one. That is a de-facto admission of guilt. Only a criminal activity seeks to cover its tracks like that.
http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_15.htm
"The government and the defenders of the 'official story' have complained bitterly about all the questioning and 'wild conjecture' put forth in the work of these school teachers and 'unemployed hacks' of the 9/11 truth movement. They have even argued that it is wholly irresponsible to critique the official narrative without first stating the exact details of the counter narrative. But it is not the responsibility of the investigators of a crime to first come up with the detailed specifics of how a crime is pulled off. Any investigation starts by identifying the fact that a crime has been committed. Compiling a list of persons who most benefited from that crime, identifying suspects who had the means, sophistication, and motivation to carry out the crime. Then those suspects are questioned, opportunity to present alibis is given, and suspects are systematically cleared. If a suspect in a criminal investigation gives a story riddled with inconsistencies, lies, nonsensical statements, conflicting testimony, and details that defy scientific logic and available evidence, the suspect cannot defend himself by ridiculing the investigator that he has not come up with a specific and comprehensive counter-narrative. It is the responsibility of the suspect to explain any incriminating details that conflict with his given narrative.
In regards to the Pentagon and Flight 77, the government and its defenders could, if they wished, put all the wild speculation as to the specifics of that event to rest. Surrounding the Pentagon, as one would expect with a building of its stature, sit numerous video cameras. On the morning of September 11, they were positioned at an adjacent gas station, on top of neighboring hotels, mounted atop an array of different lamp posts running along I-395 that encircle the building, and scattered across other buildings and positions within clear view of the Pentagon. All of those video cameras recorded the specific event of an aircraft crashing into the Pentagon on the morning of September 11. But the government will release none of those videos. The only thing they have released is a short burst of non-sequential still-frames that shows virtually nothing....
Why would the government release five individual, non-sequential still frames to the public, and not whole video clips of the event? What logical reason, besides suppression of what the full videos would show, can there be for this behavior? Some have suggested the government perhaps does not want to upset the public with more traumatic footage. Besides the fact that we are all adults who have, by now, seen far worse than a plane flying into the Pentagon, they did choose to release those individual five frames. So again, why those five frames?...
To be clear, full videos do exist. The FBI, by its own admission, has 83 such videos. They confiscated all of them shortly after the impact of Flight 77. "A security camera atop a hotel close to the Pentagon (the Sheraton) may have captured dramatic footage of the hijacked Boeing 757 airliner as it slammed into the western wall of the Pentagon. Hotel employees sat watching the film in shock and horror several times before the FBI confiscated the video as part of its investigation. (Also) the attack occurred close to the Pentagon's heliport, an area that normally would be under 24-hour security surveillance, including video monitoring." (Washington Times, 9/21/01)
The FBI also confiscated a video camera from the local Citgo gas station that sits just outside the Pentagon..."

Here's a very good analysis with several fine videos: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... 911_90.htm
You asked "what made the big hole?". Well, there never was a big hole. The hole was no more than 15 feet across (about 4.6m). There was little other damage from the 6 ton engines, the wings, tail or fuselage. The cable rolls were untouched, the lawn was pristine, there was no sizable debris, gravel was brought in to cover the crime scene, no skid trenches from flying debris, little damage to light poles, etc, etc. I've itemised all this on RDF & Rational Skepticism.
But, the clincher: The FBI admitted the whole thing was an inside job, otherwise, why confiscate all the tapes?

[Trolldor]

See that? Hell, it even has tail fins.