How do you feel about lying?

[Rum]

Most of us here are atheists and when arguments about morality and its 'absence' in atheism are tossed about by believes we can be pretty robust in defending ourselves.

But how do you feel about lying? Is it wrong intrinsically? Wrong when you do it for gain? Right when you do it to protect someone? Wrong when it is to big yourself up? And what's the position of lying in a humanist world view?

[Rum]

Obviously got people thinking! 21 reads but no responses.

How about adding: What's the biggest whopper you ever told?

[AshtonBlack]

It's relative.

For example, we need to educate our children in stages, because the "truth, or at least our best understanding of it" would be way over their academic level. So, we simplify and in the the process, don't tell the entire truth. In other words we have to lie to children to lead them on the path to understanding.
This sort of lie, is good.

Lying to your workmates, about a personal aspect of your life, because you know that it would cause, shock, harassment, bullying etc.
This sort of lie, is good. (It would be better if we didn't have to, but we don't live in a Utopia, yet.)

Seeding disinformation to an enemy during a war.
This sort of lie, is good.

I could go on the "least harm" principle. Most of the time, telling the truth, does least harm.

I suspect lying and detecting lies have an evolutionary advantage.

[AshtonBlack]

Obviously got people thinking! 21 reads but no responses.

How about adding: What's the biggest whopper you ever told?

Only just found it!

If I told you my biggest whopper, then it may do harm. So no.

[Tigger]

Obviously got people thinking! 21 reads but no responses.

How about adding: What's the biggest whopper you ever told?

Ok, that's me in.

I told my friends and family that I was going on a week's climbing trip to Wales in my own country, when in fact I went 4000 miles to another continent to have an affair. Consummate it really, for the affair was already underway. I feel no guilt about it, I am human, and I did what I wanted to do to make me happy. En route I tried to ensure that other people would be minimally impacted by my actions, but as I am the most important person I know, I feel few recriminations and I would, under the same circumstances, do it again.

I will lie knowingly, deliberately and frequently if I think it is in general best interests, but, and this is a big but, I am tremendously altruistic and I will do my utmost to help others, without, I might add, the requirement of religious morals.

I will never hurt anyone more than necessary, and while what I wrote above makes me seem like a total twat, there are a few people here who understand totally why I did what I did.

[Rum]

Obviously got people thinking! 21 reads but no responses.

How about adding: What's the biggest whopper you ever told?

Ok, that's me in.

I told my friends and family that I was going on a week's climbing trip to Wales in my own country, when in fact I went 4000 miles to another continent to have an affair. Consummate it really, for the affair was already underway. I feel no guilt about it, I am human, and I did what I wanted to do to make me happy. En route I tried to ensure that other people would be minimally impacted by my actions, but as I am the most important person I know, I feel few recriminations and I would, under the same circumstances, do it again.

I will lie knowingly, deliberately and frequently if I think it is in general best interests, but, and this is a big but, I am tremendously altruistic and I will do my utmost to help others, without, I might add, the requirement of religious morals.

I will never hurt anyone more than necessary, and while what I wrote above makes me seem like a total twat, there are a few people here who understand totally why I did what I did.

Many of us know the story.

I think I still hold on to a pseudo-Christian sense of what lying is and so I feel a sense of guilt I can't really shake off, even if a lie would be the most helpful thing all round. Not to say I don't lie - I do - but not major ones as a rule.

[Animavore]

I've lied to the Garda to keep me from having a criminal record and also protect my friends. I've lied to my mother of my whereabouts constantly. Sometimes when I go to a place no one knows me I make up an alias and stick to it for the laugh. In Donegal I'm a pathologist called Johnny Rook and in Kerry I'm a psychologist. So lies can be used for self-preservation, protection or fun. Not once have I ever felt ashamed to tell a lie. In fact I feel quite justified to do so.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Honestly?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I'm pretty crap at lying. Even if I am telling the truth and people don't believe me, I get shifty and feel guilty. I tend to keep the lying to a minimum because of that. I don't see anything intrinsically 'wrong' with it but I don't like hurting people, so the few lies I do tell tend to be lies of avoidance rather than lies of malice.

Fuck it. That was all a lie.

Or that was.

I dunno anymore.

[rachelbean]

I'm pretty crap at lying. Even if I am telling the truth and people don't believe me, I get shifty and feel guilty. I tend to keep the lying to a minimum because of that. I don't see anything intrinsically 'wrong' with it but I don't like hurting people, so the few lies I do tell tend to be lies of avoidance rather than lies of malice.

This is EXACTLY what I was going to say

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I'm pretty crap at lying. Even if I am telling the truth and people don't believe me, I get shifty and feel guilty. I tend to keep the lying to a minimum because of that. I don't see anything intrinsically 'wrong' with it but I don't like hurting people, so the few lies I do tell tend to be lies of avoidance rather than lies of malice.

This is EXACTLY what I was going to say

Liar!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've only ever told one lie.

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

This one.

[Don't Panic]

I lie when I have to, it doesn't make me feel guilty or uncomfortable or anything like that, it's a necessary evil at times.

I prefer the truth though, much simpler.

[duckcake]

Without all of the religious trappings, I think lies are just another communications tool of humankind.

Like most any tool, used properly, lies can be helpful and useful. Used improperly, they can be hurtful and destructive.

Personally I tend to err on the side of just coming out with it, because I think that in general people are best served by knowing the facts or others' thoughts on a matter with as little window dressing as possible.

[maiforpeace]

I hold a mostly "virtue ethics" view about lying, which is that lying is a bad thing when it is a step away, not toward, the process of me becoming the best person I can be. So, over the years I have learned that mostly all lying fits that category, and therefore I don't lie about most everything. On rare occasion I make an exception for the tiny white lie for utilitarian purposes though.