I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

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I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Mr. Olaudah Equiano » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:28 am

Tonight's topic was the UN and America's role in it. It was my first time attending a Chomsky event. :toot:


The lecture was about 45 min to an hour long, the Q & A was about 45 minutes also.


There were a whole lot of insipid, rhetorically point-less, garden variety questions about how we could achieve an actual “democracy” in America. A lot of people wondering aloud whether it should be done by “radical revolution” or by some other means, so that we could take the power from the ‘privileged elite’ and special interests in government and give the power to the people and all of those kinds of senseless mind-numbing banalities. No one seemed to consider or care about the consequential loss of minority/Civil Rights and protections - if the Federal gov't were to be overthrown and replaced with some sort of confederation of autonomous majority-rule cooperatives. These MIT students and Cambridge radicals are so stoopid and clueless, it's kind of embarrassing (and a little bit scary).

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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by irreligionist » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:37 am

Forgetting the Q&A bit, how did you find Chomsky's lecture?

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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Mr. Olaudah Equiano » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:09 am

irreligionist wrote:Forgetting the Q&A bit, how did you find Chomsky's lecture?


Well, my head didn't explode or anything like that. His lectures are usually so broad and diffuse in scope and filled with obscure tidbits that its tough to fact check much of what he says. There were a few comments that I could easily confirm were verifiably untrue tho. One was about Aristotle and democracy; he said that democracy was the system of government that Aristotle favored most.... which, I don't know where he's getting that. In his Politics, I think monarchy is placed at the top along with the two other ‘good constitutions’ (aristocracy & polity); and democracy is classified as one of three ‘perverted’ forms of government (along with tyranny and oligarchy). And he just made some shit up about a SCOTOS ruling on immigrant rights and the wording of the 14th amendment of our Constitution - which, luckily for moi, I had one with me, so I could check the wording and confirm that he was comfoosed about that (and confusing/misleading other peoples too).... I'll go into that later tho, I'm getting sleepy right now.


But I enjoyed very much being in the presence of such a renown iconoclast.... even if he is the insidiously mild mannered demagogue/cult leader of misguided & myopic, unconstructive and overall hysterical people (*i.e. rebels who lack critical and independent thinking faculties).

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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Ameri Boi » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:23 am

From what I gather, Noam Chomsky does not advocate the act of revolution, he makes a distinction between the communists and the socialists and argues that the way to a purer democracy lies primarily in ourselves, and not our institutions; only by changing the cultural dynamic will the political institutions be vulnerable to democratic change, At least that's the vibe I get from his book/speech in 1970: Government in the Future.

i.e those questions were probably met with shrugging.
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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Mr. Olaudah Equiano » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:36 am

Ameri Boi wrote:From what I gather, Noam Chomsky does not advocate the act of revolution, he makes a distinction between the communists and the socialists and argues that the way to a purer democracy lies primarily in ourselves, and not our institutions; only by changing the cultural dynamic will the political institutions be vulnerable to democratic change, At least that's the vibe I get from his book/speech in 1970: Government in the Future.

i.e those questions were probably met with shrugging.

Well ok, but he seems to be reluctant to speak up about it. The question asked of him seemed to be in regards to his commentary on the disenfranchisement of minorities and immigrants in American history, such as: the return of African-Americans into a slavery-like existence about a decade after the conclusion of the Civil War—following the “compromise of 1877” that brought about an end to the Reconstruction era in the South—during which time they had obtained significant political empowerments and Civil Rights protections via the 14th & 15th Amendments. Of course, Chomsky mentioned nothing about the fact that it was precisely the pacifist wing of the then-progressive Republican party—comprised of people precisely like Chomsky and other “anti-war” types would have sided and identified with—who also stood opposed to things like “state violence” and the “illegal occupation” of the South by federal troops—who were there to provide freedmen's newly obtained suffrage rights and protect the black public schools built by the Freedmen's bureau from the neoconfederate terrorist paramilitary wing of the Democrats: the party of the Southern white supremacists. It was because of people like Chomsky that the North capitulated to the South, and “reconciliation” was achieved after the end of the military occupation and the era of black freedoms and Civil Rights that ended with it (for another hundred years). oops, I got a little carried away, ok, lemme get to the point incase anyone reads this far. okay, never mind about all that..... the question had to do with Obama being elected, and whether a radical revolution was now needed to restore democracy and give black people in America their due, since electing a black president doesn't seem to have achieved anything (or words to that effect....). Which, if you think about it, is such an unbelievably daft and stupid suggestion, since it was precisely too much democracy—i.e. a ‘tyranny of the majority’—and a spineless waffling electorate, that brought about a premature end to the Reconstruction era of military occupation and nation-building - taking with it the newly won rights and representation of African Americans in the first place. But Chomsky's reply was something along the lines of “well sure, if you want to achieve something, you need to work towards a way to get from to A to B” the implication being that ‘radical revolution’ to bring about ‘more democracy’ was not idiotic at all, and might even be a practical means of going about it. But imo anyone with some spine and scruples should have slapped someone for being stupid enough to suggest such a thing.

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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Ameri Boi » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:13 am

I don't think Chomksy would support reparations, nor consider the "need" that African-Americans "get their due". The past is the past, and the only way to have a united future is to merely remember and apologize for the past so as not to let it happen again and consider ourselves Human and nothing else. Equality in the present is the reparation of the past. I do believe there is a judicial system/rights system in Chomksy's utopia; he is after all a Libertarian Socialist, whom is reluctant to have the masses or any institution interfere in the personal lives of citizens; the only exception lies when these actions by private persons have an adverse effect on others.

The thing we can agree on is that Chomsky does well in criticizing the status quo, but remains completely vacuous about solutions to the problem; the same goes for Naomi Klein. I love them both, but I sometimes wonder if they have thought further ahead to determine what alternatives exist to the current order.
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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Mr. Olaudah Equiano » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:12 am

He got some good jabs in at Ron Paul btw, by pointing out that what Ron Paul was advocating for would surrender our civil society to the corporations and ‘big business’ etc.... I think there are still a lot of confused young liberals who needed to hear that from their ‘wisest of leaders’.

And btw, I think you might have misunderstood me about what he was saying regarding the disenfranchisement of African Americans and neo-slave order that took place a decade after the Civil War, and the other stuff about the lack of rights for immigrants (*which he made during his presentation—as well as later—in response the question addressed to him regarding whether ‘radical revolution’ was the way to rectify it.)

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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Godless Libertarian » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:34 pm

Mr. Olaudah Equiano wrote:He got some good jabs in at Ron Paul btw, by pointing out that what Ron Paul was advocating for would surrender our civil society to the corporations and ‘big business’ etc....
lol
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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:19 pm

Strangely, I happened to be reading the chapter on Chomsky in Darwin's Dangerous Idea, in Keele library earlier.


It would appear Chomsky is a bit of an idiot.
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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Ameri Boi » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:49 pm

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:Strangely, I happened to be reading the chapter on Chomsky in Darwin's Dangerous Idea, in Keele library earlier.


It would appear Chomsky is a bit of an idiot.
...There's a chapter in Dan Dennett's book on Noam Chomsky?
"Another aspect of the particulateness of the gene is that is does not grow senile; it is no more likely to die when it is a million years old than when it is only a hundred. It leaps from body to body in it's own way and for its own ends, abandoning a succession of mortal bodies before they sink in senility and death" -Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene p.34


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Re: I saw Chomsky speak tonight.

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:28 am

Ameri Boi wrote:
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:Strangely, I happened to be reading the chapter on Chomsky in Darwin's Dangerous Idea, in Keele library earlier.


It would appear Chomsky is a bit of an idiot.
...There's a chapter in Dan Dennett's book on Noam Chomsky?
Well, not quite a whole chapter on him, but section two ("Chomsky Contra Darwin") of chapter thirteen ("Losing Out Minds to Darwin").
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