Anti-Terrorism, civil liberties and fearmongering.

[Pappa]

Cardiff, UK

Innocent couple targeted by armed police in anti-terrorist raid

AN INNOCENT JAZZ musician and his partner were subjected to a terrifying ordeal after being targeted by armed police in an anti-terrorist operation in Cardiff, it was claimed today.

Victor Frederick, 63, was wrongly accused of having a bomb factory in his music studio, he told a press conference at the Senedd in Cardiff Bay.

Plaid Cymru AM Leanne Wood said the incident, which happened last month, could easily have turned into Wales’s version of the tragic killing of Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian man shot dead by police who wrongly thought he was a terrorist on a London tube train.

Armed officers using infra-red guns told Mr Frederick’s partner Andrea Heath she would be shot if she moved, the press conference was told.

Mr Frederick, who with his band the Cougars played at a police ball two years ago, was arrested as he returned home. He said he, Ms Heath and their 12-year-old daughter had been severely traumatised by the experience. They said they believe the police operation, which involved blocking off their street and the use of a police helicopter, was hugely disproportionate.

Ms Wood has made an official complaint to South Wales Chief Constable Barbara Wilding and has also copied in Tom Davies, the Independent Police Complaints Commissioner for Wales.

A South Wales Police spokeswoman said: “South Wales Police received information on suspicious items in a property in Grangetown, Cardiff.

“On February 17, armed police officers were deployed as a precaution to ensure the safety of the public and officers and a 63 year old man was arrested. He was later released without charge.

“South Wales Police accepts Mr Frederick has done nothing wrong and our officers acted in good faith in response to genuine concerns.

"South Wales Police has a duty to thoroughly investigate all potentially suspicious incidents in order to protect our communities.

“We received a letter from Ms Leanne Wood on Monday and are currently considering our response.”

[Pappa]

This poster has appeared on my local train station recently:



It has coincided with a few other things I've come across lately too:

The innocent Jazz musician targeted by police in Cardiff last month.
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1030

...and British Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith's recent warnings about the dire thread of a 'dirty bomb'....

I was told recently that the special powers given by the Prevention of Terrorism bill brought in in the UK a few years ago have now been used more than 10,000 times, for all sorts of mundane stuff.

Hmmmm... then there's the whole risk thing. I'm still more likely to die from trying to get dressed while walking downstairs in the morning than from a terrorist bomb, yet the security services don't dress me every morning. In the past 15 years in the UK, we've had more civil liberties eroded than at any time for centuries, but we seem to just shrug and accept it. None of these laws will be repealed once they're in, Governments love these sorts of things.

Looked at from another direction, does it also feel a bit like a "duck and cover" panic in action (except at least there really was a risk of a nuclear war). In the 20th century, we had the the threat of Communism, and the War on Drugs to distract us when real wars weren't happening. Now we have the War on Terror. Ooooo... I'm so scared.

Sorry if these ponderings are a bit disparate.

Thoughts?

[JasonK]

I have a thought...

What the fuck language is that on the lefT?

Gods, and I thought it was bullshit here with the Spanish plastered all over everything...

[Xamonas Chegwé]

That's not a language. It's just a load of left-over letters that the council had to use up before the new government poster-letter allocations start in April.

[The Curious Squid]

I think that's Polish, not sure though.

Pappa, there's a radio campaign to go along with that advert, it's just as bad.

Reminds me of a talk I got in Royal Mail a few years back where it was suggested that postmen should act as informants because we cover every home in the UK. I'm glad that was never enforced.

[Pappa]

I have a thought...

What the fuck language is that on the lefT?

Gods, and I thought it was bullshit here with the Spanish plastered all over everything...

It's Welsh.

[The Curious Squid]

Nope, it's Polish. Definitely foreign

[Trolldor]

Is t3h administration not fact checking... again.

[JasonK]

I have a thought...

What the fuck language is that on the lefT?

Gods, and I thought it was bullshit here with the Spanish plastered all over everything...

It's Welsh.

Well, I suppose I should be embarrassed that I didn't know that considering the fact that I'm of Welsh heritage (partially, like most of us mutts...), but I'll just say that they should be embarrassed for having such a silly looking little language instead.

Paco, I'd know Polish... We've more than enough of that in Chicago as well..

[charlou]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775.

[Shaker]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775.

Jesus, ain't that the truth

[AshtonBlack]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775.

Couldn't agree more.

[Gordon]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775.

I agree totally, but I recall a slightly different version:

Those who would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither, and will lose both.

[Comte de Saint-Germain]

Give me some artificial fertiliser, some gasoline, a garbage bag, a cardboard box and a box of matches, and I'll give you something to be afraid of. Someone who has to resort to medicine bottles to build a bomb doesn't know what he is doing. Look for enthusiastic collectors of old-fashioned lamps: those are the guys who build nuclear bombs in their basement/garage.

The problem with 'islamisation' is that it seems to suggest that Islamic individuals are taking control of European institutions - this is not the case, Islamists are providing the basis on which willing tyrants reduce essential liberties by spreading fear that one, creates grounds for anti-terrorism measures and two, stifles religious criticism that is useful to implement freedom-limiting jurisdiction in other venues.

In the Netherlands attempts are made to rekindle the debate on euthanasia and abortion.

[al-rawandi]

This poster has appeared on my local train station recently:



It has coincided with a few other things I've come across lately too:

The innocent Jazz musician targeted by police in Cardiff last month.
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1030

...and British Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith's recent warnings about the dire thread of a 'dirty bomb'....

I was told recently that the special powers given by the Prevention of Terrorism bill brought in in the UK a few years ago have now been used more than 10,000 times, for all sorts of mundane stuff.

Hmmmm... then there's the whole risk thing. I'm still more likely to die from trying to get dressed while walking downstairs in the morning than from a terrorist bomb, yet the security services don't dress me every morning. In the past 15 years in the UK, we've had more civil liberties eroded than at any time for centuries, but we seem to just shrug and accept it. None of these laws will be repealed once they're in, Governments love these sorts of things.

Looked at from another direction, does it also feel a bit like a "duck and cover" panic in action (except at least there really was a risk of a nuclear war). In the 20th century, we had the the threat of Communism, and the War on Drugs to distract us when real wars weren't happening. Now we have the War on Terror. Ooooo... I'm so scared.

Sorry if these ponderings are a bit disparate.

Thoughts?

Yes I have some thoughts. The usual hand waving from the usual suspects is summed up as "Well the Commies didn't bomb us, so I guess I shouldn't be worried now." This is a terrible analogy for you to use, why? Because when we had a stand off between the western bloc and Societ bloc there was a serious deterrent, neither side wanted to die. There was a nation state on each side (or more than one) that was very serious about perpetuating its current power structure. In the present instance we are faced with a group of theocratic thugs, who actually want to die... this is their greatest wish (their penultimate wish actually, the ultimate being killing you or I). They have no nation state to preserve, they don't care if the Jahili states of Egypt or Pakistan are wiped from the map in a US counterattack, in fact they would likely be indifferent as they routinely target people in Muslims countries in terror attacks now.

The only thing preventing a stateless terror group like al-Qaeda from using an apocalyptic weapon is the fact that they don't posses one yet, or do and cannot quite deliver it. There is no deterrence to these threats, they are very real. Now, whether or not these sweeping government powers are warranted is a different matter. But the threat is very real, just ask those people who were splattered upon the walls of the London underground.

And as to your comment that governments don't give these powers back... bullshit. The US ended Japanese internment and gave up their "powers" to do so. The US government ended the draft. I can't speak about British government policy in great depth, but the US has a history of relinquishing powers. But it is nice to see that you are such a diehard libertarian when it comes to terrorism.