Online journalism blog= win!

[klr]

Where did those personal attacks (all verbal) RD mentions in his 'outrage' post come from? If they existed and were deleted so that there's now no record of it, no evidence to support the claim those comments were even made, that, in itself, is a clear example of why posts should not be tampered with or deleted.

That aside, RD quotes a handful of alleged personal attacks and uses that to justify the vilification and alienation a vast online community of people? Not rational.

Of course not. We of course can show that the quotes came from here, which is very ironic on several levels. The fact that we can show they were posted here would fatally undermine any assertion on his part (with no other evidence) that they came from over yonder before the lockdown.

I can't imagine Richard wanting to come over to rationalia and trawl through posts.

Although, I assume whoever found that quote of mine was googling Josh Timonen, because the "in praise of josh timonen" thread wasn't nearly the busiest on here.

I think we can take both of those as given.

Actually, it gives me the heebie-jeebies thinking that RD could be viewing this thread right now ...

Back during the schism of 2008, he made a hypothetically, whimsy toned comment about how he "might even join" us, when he became less busy, as part of his various 'best wishes' and stuff. It'd be a pain in the arse to find now, but it's definitely there. And he's also stated that his main hobby is "fucking".

Perhaps I should demonstrate to him the vast superiority of this site over his by showing him a recent picture Mousy's arse?

I don't want to sound mean to him, but I think RD is well-practiced in serving up platitudes. I suppose he has to be, so as to be a pleasant and polite person in his public dealings. This would especially be the case as most of the interactions are of a superficial nature, where style is a least as important as substance.

[lordpasternack]

I don't want to sound mean to him, but I think RD is well-practiced in serving up platitudes. I suppose he has to be, so as to be a pleasant and polite person in his public dealings. This would especially be the case as most of the interactions are of a superficial nature, where style is a least as important as substance.

I don't know, I actually think he in some ways wears his heart on his sleeve. I suppose it's in the interpretation...

And as I said, it wasn't exactly a serious sentiment felt, but there was something genuine about the tone that I sensed.

[klr]

I don't want to sound mean to him, but I think RD is well-practiced in serving up platitudes. I suppose he has to be, so as to be a pleasant and polite person in his public dealings. This would especially be the case as most of the interactions are of a superficial nature, where style is a least as important as substance.

I don't know, I actually think he in some ways wears his heart on his sleeve. I suppose it's in the interpretation...

And as I said, it wasn't exactly a serious sentiment felt, but there was something genuine about the tone that I sensed.

You may well be right in this case, and I actually meant to add that. But often, he would have to say things to complete strangers on the spur of the moment, knowing little or nothing about the other person. A lot of public figures have to do that.

[lordpasternack]

You may well be right in this case, and I actually meant to add that. But often, he would have to say things to complete strangers on the spur of the moment, knowing little or nothing about the other person. A lot of public figures have to do that.

I don't know. I can be kinda like that. I can warm to people instantly. The trouble is that I'm a gregarious loner, and I really often don't find the impetus to get back in touch with some of the really cool strangers I've met at various stages. I mean to, but I just kinda drift, and get back into my own little world again.

And I also think I understand why Richard doesn't respond to a lot of emails too (quite apart from the fact he gets so much). If I don't respond to something right there and then, it tends to just drift from my agenda, even if I've actually thought about and considered the correspondence - and not responding right there and then includes skipping to read other emails in the inbox. I remember I started getting actually anxious one time when I was getting more emails than I could deal with and wanted to respond to every one. And it's fucking annoying when you get these really needy/clingy bastards who'll send you five texts in one hour, with each one raising the pleads as to what they've done to upset you, and please will you reply?

But enough about me, my own person, and interpretations of Richard...

[klr]

You may well be right in this case, and I actually meant to add that. But often, he would have to say things to complete strangers on the spur of the moment, knowing little or nothing about the other person. A lot of public figures have to do that.

I don't know. I can be kinda like that. I can warm to people instantly. The trouble is that I'm a gregarious loner, and I really often don't find the impetus to get back in touch with some of the really cool strangers I've met at various stages. I mean to, but I just kinda drift, and get back into my own little world again.

And I also think I understand why Richard doesn't respond to a lot of emails too (quite apart from the fact he gets so much). If I don't respond to something right there and then, it tends to just drift from my agenda, even if I've actually thought about and considered the correspondence - and not responding right there and then includes skipping to read other emails in the inbox. I remember I started getting actually anxious one time when I was getting more emails than I could deal with and wanted to respond to every one. And it's fucking annoying when you get these really needy/clingy bastards who'll send you five texts in one hour, with each one raising the pleads as to what they've done to upset you, and please will you reply?

But enough about me, my own person, and interpretations of Richard...

You think you've got problems with emails ... you should see my work inbox sometime. And mine is far from being the worst by all accounts.

I'm surprised he ever let himself be directly contactable by PM, but I think it's good that he did.

[Fact-Man]

And are we in the possession of some good evidence indicative of the deliberate deleting of possibly incriminating admin logs? Could we calmly and confidently lay evidence in front of Richard and invite him to digest it and think a bit longer about his opinions of various characters?

Yes we are and according to Peter Harrison, this has been done.

Read his blogs at:

Peter Harrison: Death of a Forum http://realityismyreligion.wordpress.co ... open-soon/ and
Peter Harrison: Forum Closure Update http://realityismyreligion.wordpress.co ... m-closure/

Peter's a careful and caring individual. I think we can take him at his word here, "We have sent the evidence to Richard."

Now, as long as there's no intervening hurdles for that commo to jump over or get shot down by, Dawkins will read the evidence and he'll be forced to consider it and react to it. He won't be able to remain mum ... because he'll know that Pater and his colleagues can go to the media with it, and he'll realize he'd better not let that happen. Unless ... unless he thinks his reputation is strong enough that the media would ignore it, a pretty risky decision methinks.

The Sunday papers in Britain are possibly going to be screaming this story at the top of their lungs. They've read Peter's blogs, they know what he knows. Channel 4 invited him (Peter) to do an interview today, although he hadn't made up his mind whether to do it or not last I heard over at Rational Skepticism. I expect he probably has done it.

Peter's no pushover.

With stories like this one, the truth doesn't often appear until the second or third iteration, and right now we're barely coming off the first iteration.

The media have much more to say on this.

[DMac]

True, but if he's not actually opened it - and other similar messages - then he must have a truly unmanageable inbox by now. If it was deleted before reading, a return message to that effect would be received. So the worst option is indeed the skim, but this message has no fat to skim (sorry about that ).

Well the worst option is that he read it in full, and has perfect understanding of the timeline of events, and is a hypocrite who would rather let the whole thing die than correct factual mistakes either in his original "Outrage" post, or correct extremely unprofessional behavior in his subordinates.

It's his forum, it's his name behind that ridiculous post, the side attempting to detail the true facts has sent him numerous messages and posted numerous corrective comments on news articles, and he's certainly well-versed in finding the facts of various matters if he so chooses. Considering it's his own damn website, I'd expect he'd be motivated to do so if he cares one bit about any of the former posters there or about presenting truth rather than spin.

I don't see why he should get any benefit of doubt at this point. If a theory is that he should get more time before responding, he already shot that theory in the foot by his "Outrage" post. Dawkins' views thus far are in coordination with Timonen's actions. The onus is on him and him alone to correct himself and/or his staff. But if no further information ever comes to light (and even if it does, depending on what it is), I'm going to assume he's either dishonestly complicit, or incredibly ignorant.

[pErvinalia]

Other actions - such as suppressing signatures and changing the time limit between PMs to something ridiculous - will be almost impossible for Josh/challkers to deny. The only question will be which one of them did it.

Yes, but I mean providing substantive, not just testimonial, evidence to Richard. I suppose the vast history of "Christ, my PMs have gone dodgy;" "mine too," will kinda stand to test, but I was really hoping we could provide the meat and leave Richard to digest and have very little option other than to realise the correct version of events, and how we spoke truths after all - and others may have told him falsehoods.

I'm still a page behind the action, so I don't know if anyone has addressed this. But the PM system is STILL hamstrung now, so it should be only a matter of attempting to send some group PM's and too many PM's in succession, and then screen capturing the error messages.