Honest enemy or dishonest friend?

[CJ]

Which would you rather deal with, Russia as an honest enemy or America as a dishonest friend? Frankly after the last 40 years I'd rather deal with Russia. Now this isn't a pop at the American public but the American state. Neither Russia nor America have an moral code when it comes to their foreign policy but at least the Russian's are up front bastards and recognise there is a world beyond their shores.

Thoughts?

[Pappa]

Which would you rather deal with, Russia as an honest enemy or America as a dishonest friend? Frankly after the last 40 years I'd rather deal with Russia. Now this isn't a pop at the American public but the American state. Neither Russia nor America have an moral code when it comes to their foreign policy but at least the Russian's are up front bastards and recognise there is a world beyond their shores.

Thoughts?

I don't agree that Russia (or any other enemy) is genuinely honest though. Why would they be?

[Clinton Huxley]

You can't expect any great power to operate in any other way than in its own narrow self-interest. That applies to France too.

[CJ]

Which would you rather deal with, Russia as an honest enemy or America as a dishonest friend? Frankly after the last 40 years I'd rather deal with Russia. Now this isn't a pop at the American public but the American state. Neither Russia nor America have an moral code when it comes to their foreign policy but at least the Russian's are up front bastards and recognise there is a world beyond their shores.

Thoughts?

I don't agree that Russia (or any other enemy) is genuinely honest though. Why would they be?

I don't think the Russian's are particularly honest but they make no pretence about being friendly either. The American psyche though is fundamentally selfish and disingenuous as each individual is brought up to be selfish and fuck everybody else. While America was getting it's act together during it's first 180 years of existance this was not a huge problem. However now this 'innate selfishness' is a danger to the rest of the world. The Russians though have a longer history and have been invaded many times. They understand the risks of war in a way the Americans can never do as they have never been invaded.

Sort of derailed myself there

There is no doubt that the Russians are not the friends of Europe as such. However America isn't either but makes all the nice noises. So which would be better in terms of dealing with. The country where you know where you are or the one that smiles but sticks a knife in your back?

[Pappa]

Which would you rather deal with, Russia as an honest enemy or America as a dishonest friend? Frankly after the last 40 years I'd rather deal with Russia. Now this isn't a pop at the American public but the American state. Neither Russia nor America have an moral code when it comes to their foreign policy but at least the Russian's are up front bastards and recognise there is a world beyond their shores.

Thoughts?

I don't agree that Russia (or any other enemy) is genuinely honest though. Why would they be?

I don't think the Russian's are particularly honest but they make no pretence about being friendly either. The American psyche though is fundamentally selfish and disingenuous as each individual is brought up to be selfish and fuck everybody else. While America was getting it's act together during it's first 180 years of existance this was not a huge problem. However now this 'innate selfishness' is a danger to the rest of the world. The Russians though have a longer history and have been invaded many times. They understand the risks of war in a way the Americans can never do as they have never been invaded.

Sort of derailed myself there

There is no doubt that the Russians are not the friends of Europe as such. However America isn't either but makes all the nice noises. So which would be better in terms of dealing with. The country where you know where you are or the one that smiles but sticks a knife in your back?

Well, I'd agree with Mr. Huxley... all world powers are dishonest and would stick a knife in your back.

[Twoflower]

Which would you rather deal with, Russia as an honest enemy or America as a dishonest friend? Frankly after the last 40 years I'd rather deal with Russia. Now this isn't a pop at the American public but the American state. Neither Russia nor America have an moral code when it comes to their foreign policy but at least the Russian's are up front bastards and recognise there is a world beyond their shores.

Thoughts?

I don't agree that Russia (or any other enemy) is genuinely honest though. Why would they be?

I don't think the Russian's are particularly honest but they make no pretence about being friendly either. The American psyche though is fundamentally selfish and disingenuous as each individual is brought up to be selfish and fuck everybody else. While America was getting it's act together during it's first 180 years of existance this was not a huge problem. However now this 'innate selfishness' is a danger to the rest of the world. The Russians though have a longer history and have been invaded many times. They understand the risks of war in a way the Americans can never do as they have never been invaded.

Sort of derailed myself there

There is no doubt that the Russians are not the friends of Europe as such. However America isn't either but makes all the nice noises. So which would be better in terms of dealing with. The country where you know where you are or the one that smiles but sticks a knife in your back?

[Ian]

Which would you rather deal with, Russia as an honest enemy or America as a dishonest friend? Frankly after the last 40 years I'd rather deal with Russia. Now this isn't a pop at the American public but the American state. Neither Russia nor America have an moral code when it comes to their foreign policy but at least the Russian's are up front bastards and recognise there is a world beyond their shores.

Thoughts?

I don't agree that Russia (or any other enemy) is genuinely honest though. Why would they be?

I don't think the Russian's are particularly honest but they make no pretence about being friendly either. The American psyche though is fundamentally selfish and disingenuous as each individual is brought up to be selfish and fuck everybody else. While America was getting it's act together during it's first 180 years of existance this was not a huge problem. However now this 'innate selfishness' is a danger to the rest of the world. The Russians though have a longer history and have been invaded many times. They understand the risks of war in a way the Americans can never do as they have never been invaded.

Sort of derailed myself there

There is no doubt that the Russians are not the friends of Europe as such. However America isn't either but makes all the nice noises. So which would be better in terms of dealing with. The country where you know where you are or the one that smiles but sticks a knife in your back?

[CJ]

Which would you rather deal with, Russia as an honest enemy or America as a dishonest friend? Frankly after the last 40 years I'd rather deal with Russia. Now this isn't a pop at the American public but the American state. Neither Russia nor America have an moral code when it comes to their foreign policy but at least the Russian's are up front bastards and recognise there is a world beyond their shores.

Thoughts?

I don't agree that Russia (or any other enemy) is genuinely honest though. Why would they be?

I don't think the Russian's are particularly honest but they make no pretence about being friendly either. The American psyche though is fundamentally selfish and disingenuous as each individual is brought up to be selfish and fuck everybody else. While America was getting it's act together during it's first 180 years of existance this was not a huge problem. However now this 'innate selfishness' is a danger to the rest of the world. The Russians though have a longer history and have been invaded many times. They understand the risks of war in a way the Americans can never do as they have never been invaded.

Sort of derailed myself there

There is no doubt that the Russians are not the friends of Europe as such. However America isn't either but makes all the nice noises. So which would be better in terms of dealing with. The country where you know where you are or the one that smiles but sticks a knife in your back?

I wondered who'd be the first to bite

[tattuchu]

It's difficult for us to even imagine that other countries exist on this world. They seem nothing more than an abstract idea. And even if they do exist, they hardly matter; our country is the best country in the world. All others are irrelevant or unimportant. Unless we're fighting them. And we quite like to do that, even though we think of ourselves as the peace-keepers of the world.

Our foreign policy appears to be immoral, or at least amoral. The average American would hardly think so, however. We consider ourselves the good guys. And we should be the good guys, if our ideals mean anything. But most people here maintain a blissful ignorance of what our government is really up to. And if god forbid someone should question our government's actions, they're considered unpatriotic or even treasonous. And then you also have the folks who defend and condone our behaviour, no matter how disturbing or horrific or even illegal it might be.
Don't get me wrong; our country certainly isn't the worst. I think the United States is a fine country, but we've lost our way. It's the hypocrisy that bothers me, and the willful ignorance, the blind loyalty, and the overall apathy. Nobody knows what our government does. If they do, they don't care, or explain or rationalize it away. And if people do care, they care about the wrong shit. Or they care about the right shit, but get their facts wrong

[CJ]

tattuchu

As an American why do you think this has happened?

[tattuchu]

tattuchu

As an American why do you think this has happened?

That's a good question. As far as the difficulty in recognizing other countries' existence or importance, I suppose it's a matter of isolation. As far as losing our way ideologically, it may be part arrogance and part apathy. The USA is a great country in concept, and I think we've always been so fucking full of ourselves because of it that we've developed this we're-number-one! attitude. We're so busy cheering ourselves on that it's difficult to step back and look at ourselves objectively. I don't think we've ever lived up to our ideals actually, but we're blinded by the idea of our ideals to such an extent that we can't realize it, or don't want to admit it. We're the good guys, dammit I think we've become complacent in our perceived superiority. We're not even trying anymore. There's no need. And I think we've also become jaded in that even if we wanted to try and make a difference, the average citizen feels powerless. Ironic, since our government is meant to be by the people and for the people.

[maiforpeace]

tattuchu

As an American why do you think this has happened?

That's a good question. AS far as the difficulty in recognizing other countries' existence of importance, I suppose it's a matter of isolation. As far as losing our way ideologically, it may be part arrogance and part apathy. The USA is a great country in concept, and I think we've always been so fucking full of ourselves because of it that we've developed this we're-number-one! attitude. We're so busy cheering ourselves on that it's difficult to step back and look at ourselves objectively. I don't think we've ever lived up to our ideals actually, but we're blinded the idea of our ideals to such an extent that we can't realize it, or don't want to admit it. We're the good guys, dammit I think we've become complacent in our perceived superiority. We're not even trying anymore. There's no need. And I think we've also become jaded in that even if we wanted to try and make a difference, the average citizen feels powerless. Ironic, since our government is meant to be by the people and for the people.

Our isolation is self imposed. We choose mass media to give us the only information we have about the rest of the world. There is no excuse for being isolated like we are in this day and age.

I think the average American is past the arrogant, I'm "fuck all" cheering ourselves on attitude. I think we are mired in our addictions to consumerism and drugs (mostly the legal ones) that we don't even care anymore and have given over any power or control we might have had. The average American is now a slave to the dealers and the pimps - aka corporations, lobbyists and congress.

[Mallardz]

Both good.
Just smile at both and nothing will ever go wrong.

[CJ]

Both good.
Just smile at both and nothing will ever go wrong.

You may well be right!

[Hermit]

Which would you rather deal with, Russia as an honest enemy or America as a dishonest friend?

All nations' prime modus operandi is that of realpolitik, where doctrinal, ideological, ethical and moral considerations take a back seat in determining the means with which national interests are best pursued. Perceptions regarding enmity, friendship, honesty and dishonesty are at best irrelevancies. They are the skin disguising how governments really operate.

In other words, I have no preference between dealing with those nations. I am confident that neither will hesitate to steamroll any other nation - 'friend' or 'foe' - on grounds of national interest if their governments judge that as necessary and possible.