Illinois police protect atheist sign

[JimC]

The reaction to the atheist position from fundamentalist christians is always angry and hatefull...

Sugar coating the message that we don't accept their delusional crap will make no difference to that...

It's not about sugar coating, it's about being factually correct. The only word in the campaign slogan I really object to is "just", because religion is a great many things more then the things mentioned in the slogan. I'm all for public debate on the subject of religion, and I certainly don't mind if a few people get offended or even actively insulted. I do want the people on my side of the argument to use valid claims and arguments though.

I agree that you could remove the "just" from the slogan, which does allow for the pragmatic reality that religion involves activities that are useful or fulfilling to some, even though it is based on a flawed premise.

I suspect that the altered message would still be regarded as the work of the devil by many...

[AshtonBlack]

The reaction to the atheist position from fundamentalist christians is always angry and hatefull...

Sugar coating the message that we don't accept their delusional crap will make no difference to that...

It's not about sugar coating, it's about being factually correct. The only word in the campaign slogan I really object to is "just", because religion is a great many things more then the things mentioned in the slogan. I'm all for public debate on the subject of religion, and I certainly don't mind if a few people get offended or even actively insulted. I do want the people on my side of the argument to use valid claims and arguments though.

I agree, better to be right than "hard hitting" as it were.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The reaction to the atheist position from fundamentalist christians is always angry and hatefull...

Sugar coating the message that we don't accept their delusional crap will make no difference to that...

It's not about sugar coating, it's about being factually correct. The only word in the campaign slogan I really object to is "just", because religion is a great many things more then the things mentioned in the slogan. I'm all for public debate on the subject of religion, and I certainly don't mind if a few people get offended or even actively insulted. I do want the people on my side of the argument to use valid claims and arguments though.

I agree, better to be right than "hard hitting" as it were.

You guys hold the high ground, I'll slip into their camp and night and give a few of them an extra smile.

[AshtonBlack]

The reaction to the atheist position from fundamentalist christians is always angry and hatefull...

Sugar coating the message that we don't accept their delusional crap will make no difference to that...

It's not about sugar coating, it's about being factually correct. The only word in the campaign slogan I really object to is "just", because religion is a great many things more then the things mentioned in the slogan. I'm all for public debate on the subject of religion, and I certainly don't mind if a few people get offended or even actively insulted. I do want the people on my side of the argument to use valid claims and arguments though.

I agree, better to be right than "hard hitting" as it were.

You guys hold the high ground, I'll slip into their camp and night and give a few of them an extra smile.

"If we give the high ground to the enemy, the entire operation will be terminated and it's operatives disavowed. Take the fucking hill." - Ashton Black during the only time he's tried being a commander in the video game "Modern Warfare 2"

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"If we give the high ground to the enemy, the entire operation will be terminated and it's operatives disavowed. Take the fucking hill." - Ashton Black during the only time he's tried being a commander in the video game "Modern Warfare 2"

"They ceded the high ground to the Viet Minh, and Dien Bien Phu was doomed from the start." Army War College pub.

"You fucking Americans are obsessed with the 'high ground'! Why is that?" Little Brown Brother

[The Dawktor]

In my opinion- a definitive "There are no gods..." statement has validity in a face-to-face meetiing with a theist- because it starts a coversation, where you can say "OK- so you think there is a god and that that god is YOUR god- why exactly do you think that and why do you think anyone else should believe that?"

A vague- "there probably isn't a god..." statement allows them to retreat behind the great wall of "God just does exist..." position and they don't have to justify anything at all.

I'm not sure of the value of the sign in a public forum- getting people thinking-wise!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

In my opinion- a definitive "There are no gods..." statement has validity in a face-to-face meetiing with a theist- because it starts a coversation, where you can say "OK- so you think there is a god and that that god is YOUR god- why exactly do you think that and why do you think anyone else should believe that?"

A vague- "there probably isn't a god..." statement allows them to retreat behind the great wall of "God just does exist..." position and they don't have to justify anything at all.

I'm not sure of the value of the sign in a public forum- getting people thinking-wise!

If it gets a few people to be honest with themselves, "Hey, I really DON'T believe in a god," it's worth it.

[maiforpeace]

In my opinion- a definitive "There are no gods..." statement has validity in a face-to-face meetiing with a theist- because it starts a coversation, where you can say "OK- so you think there is a god and that that god is YOUR god- why exactly do you think that and why do you think anyone else should believe that?"

A vague- "there probably isn't a god..." statement allows them to retreat behind the great wall of "God just does exist..." position and they don't have to justify anything at all.

I'm not sure of the value of the sign in a public forum- getting people thinking-wise!

If it gets a few people to be honest with themselves, "Hey, I really DON'T believe in a god," it's worth it.

I agree, it starts with one, then becomes a ripple...

I'm curious what the Barkers would say in response to some of the comments made here.

[AshtonBlack]

In my opinion- a definitive "There are no gods..." statement has validity in a face-to-face meetiing with a theist- because it starts a coversation, where you can say "OK- so you think there is a god and that that god is YOUR god- why exactly do you think that and why do you think anyone else should believe that?"

A vague- "there probably isn't a god..." statement allows them to retreat behind the great wall of "God just does exist..." position and they don't have to justify anything at all.

I'm not sure of the value of the sign in a public forum- getting people thinking-wise!

If it gets a few people to be honest with themselves, "Hey, I really DON'T believe in a god," it's worth it.

I agree, it starts with one, then becomes a ripple...

I'm curious what the Barkers would say in response to some of the comments made here.

Who they?

[maiforpeace]

Dan Barker is the co-president of the FFRF, the organization who put up the sign. I am good friends with his brother Darrell and work with him at the FFRF forum as a moderator. I asked him to come over here and take a peek at this thread.

[AshtonBlack]

[Gawdzilla Sama]

morewaronchristmas.jpg (134.93 KiB) Viewed 1196 times

[Darrell Barker]

FFRF is a great organization. I acknowledge that we couldn't possibly make
everyone happy with our defending rationale and the establishment clause, it
being evident right here in this blog with objections, and then your subtitle "friendly rabid atheists (mostly)
speaks to that too, mostly.

That being said, I thought you'd like to take a broader view of the FFRFs work
on your behalf, mostly.

FFRF Sues to Stop Religious Engravings at Capitol Visitor Center
- Watchdog, Parents File Suit Against South Carolina Release-Time Credits
- Newdow, FFRF & Coalition Sue to Halt Inaugural Prayers
- FFRF Sues County of Manitowoc, Wis. over Catholic Creche
- FFRF Sues City of Rancho Cucamonga over Censorship of "Imagine No Religion" Billboard
- FFRF Sues Colorado Governor Over Prayer Proclamations
- FFRF Sues Bush, Shirley Dobson and Gov. Doyle over National Day of Prayer Proclamations
- FFRF Wins Challenge in School Child Evangelism Subsidy
- FFRF Wins Against Green Bay Creche (Settlement)
- FFRF Challenges "Under God" in Pledge in New Hampshire Schools
with New Hampshire family & Mike Newdow
- FFRF Stops Public School's Promotion of Religious Activity
- FFRF Wins Challenge of "Chaplaincy" for Indiana Family & Social Services
- Challenges North Dakota's Subsidy of Christian Juvenile "Ranch"
- FFRF v. Gonzales : FFRF Sues Federal Bureau of Prisons over Faith-based Prison Programs
- FFRF Sues Veteran Affairs Department Over Religion
- FFRF Sues Over Bush's Offices of Faith-based Initiatives
Hein v. FFRF
Challenges Emory Grant
Challenges Funding of MentorKids
- FFRF Halts University of Minnesota "Faith/Health" Entanglement
- FFRF Challenges New Mexico Faith-based Prison Program
- FFRF Stops Dept. of Education Grant to Bible College
- FFRF Wins "Scopes II"
- FFRF Wins Ten Commandments Case
- FFRF Wins Montana Faith-based Challenge
- FFRF Wins First Faith-based Challenge
- FFRF Wins Against Direct Funds to Parochial Schools
- FFRF Wins Lawsuit: Post to "Assist Clergy" Unconstitutional
- FFRF Lawsuit: Jesus Statue in Public Park Sold, Fenced
- FFRF Lawsuit: Pope Monument in Park Modified
- FFRF Wins Good Friday State Holiday Challenge

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So, you got a branch in St. Loser?

[charlou]

It looks like you guys work hard promoting a secular society. Cheers, Darrell, and welcome.