Well that's decade #1 more or less over with

[Rum]

I remember exactly where I was when it happened, and the spectacle and gravity of the horror of it was compelling. I was glued to the TV like everyone else around the world.

But I think I felt more cold dread and horror right before we went to war with Iraq. I didn't have time to dread 9/11 it was such a surprise, and, we had no idea what the full effect of it would be as the days unfolded. War, on the other hand I had had experience with. And then, we got to hear all the news leading up to war. I literally had a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach right before we declared war. It felt like a gang rape by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice, Blair...

Going to war was the event in this decade that affected me the most. Unfortunately, it still affects us and is not past.

Mai, To me it was like a petulant child striking out in any direction and randomly because it was angry and hurt. That was scary to me. I agree with you about where the real anxiety should be focused. The link between 9/11 and Iraq did not exist and not only did Bush know that, he didn't care. The invasion was an ill thought out reckless, stupid and damaging strategy. Above all - unforgivably - it was an unintelligent plan. I still remain genuinely flabbergasted.

[Bella Fortuna]

It was scary. I remember exactly where I was when I realised what was happening, and the feeling of cold dread and horror.

An honest question - why did you feel cold dread and horror when you lived thousands of miles away from the events?

I'm really curious about this because it's something I hear many Americans say.

Because nothing shrinks your world down like catastrophe, and this was one that engendered feelings of oneness with other Americans that I've not felt before nor since. How could anyone watch those events unfold... people leaping to their deaths in front of your eyes, buildings melting and crumbling as the dust and debris blew gale-force down the streets, gaining on terrified people as they ran, the tears, the blood, the unknown reasons, and not be awed with a sick horror at this terrible unprecedented event? It felt very personal.

More practically, not knowing what else might happen at the time, I lived in LA and was scared that that area could be a target.

[Ian]

I didn't get to see images from 9/11 for a couple days. I was onboard the destroyer USS Gonzalez docked in Plymouth, England and getting ready for an overnight trip to London when we started hearing some news and got orders to get underway. All hell broke loose for a couple hours, then we spent the next few days in the English Channel (with the USS Winston Churchill) waiting to hear if we'd go load up on Tomahawks and launch them into Afghanistan. But we finished our deployment on schedule in October instead, and I got married that November.

That incident did help cement my decision to start working on a Masters degree in Strategic Intelligence when I got the opportunity. I'll be done with that degree in a couple months.

A personal highlight from the decade (other than my kids being born, 'cause that's too easy) that comes to mind might be seeing Ohio State clinch a last-second victory over Michigan in 2002 to go undefeated and on to a National Championship win. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b00JmN_BwXU Awesomeness.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I didn't get to see images from 9/11 for a couple days. I was onboard the destroyer USS Gonzalez docked in Plymouth, England and getting ready for an overnight trip to London when we started hearing some news and got orders to get underway. All hell broke loose for a couple hours, then we spent the next few days in the English Channel (with the USS Winston Churchill) waiting to hear if we'd go load up on Tomahawks and launch them into Afghanistan. But we finished our deployment on schedule in October instead, and I got married that November.

That incident did help cement my decision to start working on a Masters degree in Strategic Intelligence when I got the opportunity. I'll be done with that degree in a couple months.

A personal highlight from the decade (other than my kids being born, 'cause that's too easy) that comes to mind might be seeing Ohio State clinch a last-second victory over Michigan in 2002 to go undefeated and on to a National Championship win. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b00JmN_BwXU Awesomeness.

I'd rather be in the military than be a civilian when the shit hits the fan. You have a better chance of being able to DO something.

[Ian]

I'd rather be in the military than be a civilian when the shit hits the fan. You have a better chance of being able to DO something.

Especially when your "something" involves a few dozen Tomahawk Cruise Missiles.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'd rather be in the military than be a civilian when the shit hits the fan. You have a better chance of being able to DO something.

Especially when your "something" involves a few dozen Tomahawk Cruise Missiles.

Or enough Marines to show some love to a large area of the coast.

[JimC]

I remember exactly where I was when it happened, and the spectacle and gravity of the horror of it was compelling. I was glued to the TV like everyone else around the world.

But I think I felt more cold dread and horror right before we went to war with Iraq. I didn't have time to dread 9/11 it was such a surprise, and, we had no idea what the full effect of it would be as the days unfolded. War, on the other hand I had had experience with. And then, we got to hear all the news leading up to war. I literally had a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach right before we declared war. It felt like a gang rape by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice, Blair...

Going to war was the event in this decade that affected me the most. Unfortunately, it still affects us and is not past.

Mai, To me it was like a petulant child striking out in any direction and randomly because it was angry and hurt. That was scary to me. I agree with you about where the real anxiety should be focused. The link between 9/11 and Iraq did not exist and not only did Bush know that, he didn't care. The invasion was an ill thought out reckless, stupid and damaging strategy. Above all - unforgivably - it was an unintelligent plan. I still remain genuinely flabbergasted.

The Iraq move was unecessary...

The Afghanistan response was not, and, nightmare that it still may be, still requires a bigger hammer...

[Rum]

The Iraq move was unecessary...

The Afghanistan response was not, and, nightmare that it still may be, still requires a bigger hammer...

OK, thanks for clearing that up for us there...

[JimC]

The Iraq move was unecessary...

The Afghanistan response was not, and, nightmare that it still may be, still requires a bigger hammer...

OK, thanks for clearing that up for us there...

Well, argue against it...

The key leadership of the perpetrators are on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the Taliban remains an uncompromising supporter of fundamentalist Islam, and jihad against the west...

If clever and sustained military action to destroy the taliban, and political action to reduce the internal chaos, can be done, it should be done...

[Rum]

The Iraq move was unecessary...

The Afghanistan response was not, and, nightmare that it still may be, still requires a bigger hammer...

OK, thanks for clearing that up for us there...

Well, argue against it...

The key leadership of the perpetrators are on the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the Taliban remains an uncompromising supporter of fundamentalist Islam, and jihad against the west...

If clever and sustained military action to destroy the taliban, and political action to reduce the internal chaos, can be done, it should be done...

Well I agree, so I won't argue against it. I was taking a (very small and not at all hostile) snipe at the finality of your statement!

Having said all that, the sense of grievance in the wider Arab world against the west has some basis. It is rarely acknowledged or discussed in the west either, except academically perhaps. Not justifying any violence - just making an observation.

[JimC]

Rum wrote:

Having said all that, the sense of grievance in the wider Arab world against the west has some basis. It is rarely acknowledged or discussed in the west either, except academically perhaps. Not justifying any violence - just making an observation.

IMO, the grievance has a rational and an irrational component...

The rational component involves the automatic western support for Israel, no matter what, with a complete disregard for Palestinian sensibilities...

The irrational component involves unconscious envy for a system of government relatively free of the twofold curse of corruption and theocratic interference...

[Rum]

Rum wrote:

Having said all that, the sense of grievance in the wider Arab world against the west has some basis. It is rarely acknowledged or discussed in the west either, except academically perhaps. Not justifying any violence - just making an observation.

IMO, the grievance has a rational and an irrational component...

The rational component involves the automatic western support for Israel, no matter what, with a complete disregard for Palestinian sensibilities...

The irrational component involves unconscious envy for a system of government relatively free of the twofold curse of corruption and theocratic interference...

There is also the small matter of Western imperialism and colonialism and its legacy - and the perception that America is still playing that game. Arab countries invaded, whatever the justification, sends a certain signal after all.

Coincidentally earlier on radio 4 on 'From our correspondent' there was an item from near the Pakistan/Afghan border including a description of a commonly held conspiracy theory that Israel and America have a grand plan and that the UK is an unwitting part of that.

[JimC]

Rum wrote:

Having said all that, the sense of grievance in the wider Arab world against the west has some basis. It is rarely acknowledged or discussed in the west either, except academically perhaps. Not justifying any violence - just making an observation.

IMO, the grievance has a rational and an irrational component...

The rational component involves the automatic western support for Israel, no matter what, with a complete disregard for Palestinian sensibilities...

The irrational component involves unconscious envy for a system of government relatively free of the twofold curse of corruption and theocratic interference...

There is also the small matter of Western imperialism and colonialism and its legacy - and the perception that America is still playing that game. Arab countries invaded, whatever the justification, sends a certain signal after all.

Coincidentally earlier on radio 4 on 'From our correspondent' there was an item from near the Pakistan/Afghan border including a description of a commonly held conspiracy theory that Israel and America have a grand plan and that the UK is an unwitting part of that.

Deep down, this plays out at the deepest level of our hominid heritage, the curse of tribalism which is the rational equivalent of the mark of Cain...

"Fear and hate the other"

It worked for many hundreds of thousands of years, an evolutionary stable strategy...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've recently put "Lady Sale's Journal" online. She was the wife of Brigadier Sale, who was with the Army of the Indus when the British invaded Afghanistan in 1939. I'm currently doing the official history of that war. It's very tough going, not for the technical details, but because I'm seeing the same shit happening today and I'm afraid it's going to end the same way.

[eXcommunicate]

Psychologically speaking, I can draw a straight line directly from 9/11 to my divorce.