Irish Priests. Why not just castrate them?

[klr]

As my wife is the product of a liason between an Irish catholic priest and a nun, and the priest who married her to her first husband is now married, I would rather they weren't castrated thank you VERY much.

Her parents are still both devout cathlics, though her grandnmother would not even acknowledge her existence until she was on her death-bed.

I'm just pointing out that it is possible for a priest to aim his equipment in a more appropriate direction.

Wow.

Was she adopted? They willingly admitted she was the child of a priest and a nun?

They did indeed. They both left their orders BEFORE they got married and started making people. Still...it was the reason they both left so my wife was the spawn of Satan to her Gran.

That's a pity about the grandmother. Interesting she didn't ostracize the kids for leaving the order, yet refused to recognize their child.

But, that's very cool that both of her parents left the order. Good on them.

*edited*

"Interesting" isn't the description I'd use myself. "Depressingly predictable" would be my reaction ... inexplicable on one level, yet still very predictable. That bizarre Catholic mentality, hopefully now well on its way to becoming an endangered species, if not extinct.

[cursuswalker]

"Interesting" isn't the description I'd use myself. "Depressingly predictable" would be my reaction ... inexplicable on one level, yet still very predictable. That bizarre Catholic mentality, hopefully now well on its way to becoming an endangered species, if not extinct.

I won't disagree.

Their continued adherence to that faith, and the fact that they are the ONLY people I know to whom I cannot come out, says it all.

Lovely and very moral people in themselves. But with that fucking faith on their backs...

[Xamonas Chegwé]

"Interesting" isn't the description I'd use myself. "Depressingly predictable" would be my reaction ... inexplicable on one level, yet still very predictable. That bizarre Catholic mentality, hopefully now well on its way to becoming an endangered species, if not extinct.

I won't disagree.

Their continued adherence to that faith, and the fact that they are the ONLY people I know to whom I cannot come out, says it all.

Lovely and very moral people in themselves. But with that fucking faith on their backs...

Why can't you come out to them? Does your wife not want it? Would it adversely affect her in some way? Living a lie is living a lie, even if it is only in front of two people in the world.

[cursuswalker]

Why can't you come out to them? Does your wife not want it? Would it adversely affect her in some way? Living a lie is living a lie, even if it is only in front of two people in the world.

It is at my wifes request.

She says she does not want them to think of me the way they would as a result. I am totally out in my everyday life and personally don't give a shit if they find out, as it does not affect my relationship with their daughter AT ALL.

Don't worry. I have the speech worked out in case they do get to hear...it's just that it is right to take this a step at a time and I do owe her a lot of regard for her feelings.

[Rum]

This is quite a story. And one to be sensitive about too. Have you ever considered writing it up as a 'story'?

I for one would be interested in the whole thing.

[cursuswalker]

This is quite a story. And one to be sensitive about too. Have you ever considered writing it up as a 'story'?

I for one would be interested in the whole thing.

Well do consider that it is not my story, until about 2002. Mine is VERY different and involves the kind of parents who I could ome out to with no difficulty.

The devoutness of my in-laws has always seemed like a compensation. My wife, who is long lapsed as a catholic, still loves them (they really are good people) and does not want them hurt. As she is a truly beautiful person, I would be a shit not to respect that, in spite of the compromise to my world view.

[klr]

This is quite a story. And one to be sensitive about too. Have you ever considered writing it up as a 'story'?

I for one would be interested in the whole thing.

Well do consider that it is not my story, until about 2002. Mine is VERY different and involves the kind of parents who I could ome out to with no difficulty.

The devoutness of my in-laws has always seemed like a compensation. My wife, who is long lapsed as a catholic, still loves them (they really are good people) and does not want them hurt. As she is a truly beautiful person, I would be a shit not to respect that, in spite of the compromise to my world view.

The eternal dilemma. I don't know how I've managed to survive this long without going completely feral on someone, for them going just that little bit too far once too often in the name of religion. It's not that it's always blatant and/or in-your-face either. In my experience, the key distinguishing feature of much religiously-driven behaviour and attitude is just how thoughtless it is. People have no idea real what they are doing, why, or indeed that they might be stepping on someone else's personal space. They just assume they (literally) have a god-given right to preach and witness.

[cursuswalker]

This is quite a story. And one to be sensitive about too. Have you ever considered writing it up as a 'story'?

I for one would be interested in the whole thing.

Well do consider that it is not my story, until about 2002. Mine is VERY different and involves the kind of parents who I could ome out to with no difficulty.

The devoutness of my in-laws has always seemed like a compensation. My wife, who is long lapsed as a catholic, still loves them (they really are good people) and does not want them hurt. As she is a truly beautiful person, I would be a shit not to respect that, in spite of the compromise to my world view.

The eternal dilemma. I don't know how I've managed to survive this long without going completely feral on someone, for them going just that little bit too far once too often in the name of religion. It's not that it's always blatant and/or in-your-face either. In my experience, the key distinguishing feature of much religiously-driven behaviour and attitude is just how thoughtless it is. People have no idea real what they are doing, why, or indeed that they might be stepping on someone else's personal space. They just assume they (literally) have a god-given right to preach and witness.

That's the thing though. They don't.

My father-in-law says a quiet Grace (or whatever it is in the Catholic Church) before every meal when staying with us and does not have an issue with my not taking any part in it when we stay with them. Somehow he managed to bring up a thoroughly decent daughter, who feel able to dissent from his moxt deeply held beliefs with his knowledge, and I have to respect him for that.

[klr]

This is quite a story. And one to be sensitive about too. Have you ever considered writing it up as a 'story'?

I for one would be interested in the whole thing.

Well do consider that it is not my story, until about 2002. Mine is VERY different and involves the kind of parents who I could ome out to with no difficulty.

The devoutness of my in-laws has always seemed like a compensation. My wife, who is long lapsed as a catholic, still loves them (they really are good people) and does not want them hurt. As she is a truly beautiful person, I would be a shit not to respect that, in spite of the compromise to my world view.

The eternal dilemma. I don't know how I've managed to survive this long without going completely feral on someone, for them going just that little bit too far once too often in the name of religion. It's not that it's always blatant and/or in-your-face either. In my experience, the key distinguishing feature of much religiously-driven behaviour and attitude is just how thoughtless it is. People have no idea real what they are doing, why, or indeed that they might be stepping on someone else's personal space. They just assume they (literally) have a god-given right to preach and witness.

That's the thing though. They don't.

My father-in-law says a quiet Grace (or whatever it is in the Catholic Church) before every meal when staying with us and does not have an issue with my not taking any part in it when we stay with them. Somehow he managed to bring up a thoroughly decent daughter, who feel able to dissent from his moxt deeply held beliefs with his knowledge, and I have to respect him for that.

Good for him then on that score. But a lot of religious people are not like that. I am reminded of an incident that I heard about a couple of years ago, about someone who had expressed a wish not to have a religious funeral (or that at least some religious elements would be omitted). Yet the relatives or whoever went ahead and had the full religious service, complete with priest giving a blessing and talk at the graveside. That was bad enough, but when my mother related this tale (she was at the funeral I think), she did not seem even concious of the possibility that this was a gross violation of a dying person's last wishes.

[cursuswalker]

Good for him then on that score. But a lot of religious people are not like that. I am reminded of an incident that I heard about a couple of years ago, about someone who had expressed a wish not to have a religious funeral (or that at least some religious elements would be omitted). Yet the relatives or whoever went ahead and had the full religious service, complete with priest giving a blessing and talk at the graveside. That was bad enough, but when my mother related this tale (she was at the funeral I think), she did not seem even concious of the possibility that this was a gross violation of a dying person's last wishes.

Anyone who knows me knows that I will do nothing more than condemn such fuckwittery. It was indeed and if my wife (horrible thought) were to die she would:

1) be buried in Ireland according to her parents wishes

2) NOT in a Catholic ritual.

[klr]

Good for him then on that score. But a lot of religious people are not like that. I am reminded of an incident that I heard about a couple of years ago, about someone who had expressed a wish not to have a religious funeral (or that at least some religious elements would be omitted). Yet the relatives or whoever went ahead and had the full religious service, complete with priest giving a blessing and talk at the graveside. That was bad enough, but when my mother related this tale (she was at the funeral I think), she did not seem even concious of the possibility that this was a gross violation of a dying person's last wishes.

Anyone who knows me knows that I will do nothing more than condemn such fuckwittery. It was indeed and if my wife (horrible thought) were to die she would:

1) be buried in Ireland according to her parents wishes

2) NOT in a Catholic ritual.

What gets me about such behaviour is that religious people don't seem able to appreciate that their way of thinking/believing is at best no better than anyone else's, never mind the possibility that it's all just complete tripe. They cannot properly place themselves "outside" their belief system and consider things from a distance in a dispassionate manner. It's bizarre hearing my mother try to rationalise why all this abuse happened. She can only seem to do so within a framework that does not threaten her core religious beliefs in any way, which of course means that she misses some of the main points.

A lot of this is emotional resistance, and if these scandals have done anything, it has been to gradually erode peoples' emotional attachment to the church - not just the belief system, but the organisation and the "community" that is so much part of whole package.

[cursuswalker]

What gets me about such behaviour is that religious people don't seem able to appreciate that their way of thinking/believing is at best no better than anyone else's, never mind the possibility that it's all just complete tripe. They cannot properly place themselves "outside" their belief system and consider things from a distance in a dispassionate manner. It's bizarre hearing my mother try to rationalise why all this abuse happened. She can only seem to do so within a framework that does not threaten her core religious beliefs in any way, which of course means that she misses some of the main points.

A lot of this is emotional resistance, and if these scandals have done anything, it has been to gradually erode peoples' emotional attachment to the church - not just the belief system, but the organisation and the "community" that is so much part of whole package.

I appreciate, and agree with, all of what you say.

But consider the following:

my Catholic father-in-law was born on the Falls Road in Belfast, and remembers getting on with protestants as his neighbours. He also remembers seeing people shot by the IRA on the same road years later.

In 2003 I came on holiday with my parents and we visited the Anglican Cathedral in Belfast with him. Only after we had left did he admit that he had never set foot in the place in his entire life before that day. He did not even think of making an issue of this with us, even though it was only hundreds of yards from where he was born.

I cannot help but feel respect for the man on that basis alone.

[klr]

What gets me about such behaviour is that religious people don't seem able to appreciate that their way of thinking/believing is at best no better than anyone else's, never mind the possibility that it's all just complete tripe. They cannot properly place themselves "outside" their belief system and consider things from a distance in a dispassionate manner. It's bizarre hearing my mother try to rationalise why all this abuse happened. She can only seem to do so within a framework that does not threaten her core religious beliefs in any way, which of course means that she misses some of the main points.

A lot of this is emotional resistance, and if these scandals have done anything, it has been to gradually erode peoples' emotional attachment to the church - not just the belief system, but the organisation and the "community" that is so much part of whole package.

I appreciate, and agree with, all of wjat you say.

But consider the following:

my Catholic father-in-law was born on the Falls Road in Belfast, and remembers getting on with protestants as his neighbours. He also remembers seeing people shot by the IRA on the same road years later.

In 2003 I came on holiday with my parents and we visited the Anglican Cathedral in Belfast with him. Only after we had left did he admit that he had never set foot in the place in his entire life before that day. He did not even think of making an issue of this with us, even though it was only hundreds of yards from where he was born.

I cannot help but feel respect for the man on that basis alone.

Especially as sectarianism can still run deep in Northern Ireland. It's not as much of an issue here in the south, not least because there are so few Protestants left, and also because religious rivalry never became part of a big inter-community conflict the way it did in the 6 counties. There were horror stories in the past though, but generally before my time.

I've told this story before elsewhere, but I'll tell it again: When we were all young, it was drilled into us to bless ourselves whenever we passed a church or cathedral (or grotto for that matter). But there was always one church that we were told not to bless upon passing. What's a child supposed to make of that? There was also some quite blatant "Catholic nationalism" at my primary school - from the headmaster of all people. At least it was blatant in retrospect. I doubt the school patrons (the Catholic Church again of course) would have have worried over-much about that.

[cursuswalker]

I've told this story before elsewhere, but I'll tell it again: When we were all young, it was drilled into us to bless ourselves whenever we passed a church or cathedral (or grotto for that matter). But there was always one church that we were told not to bless upon passing. What's a child supposed to make of that? There was also some quite blatant "Catholic nationalism" at my primary school - from the headmaster of all people. At least it was blatant in retrospect. I doubt the school patrons (the Catholic Church again of course) would have have worried over-much about that.

As one brought up in an environment where religious belief didn't count for shit, I can only express sympathy. As well as my utter respect for your having escaped that brainwashing.

[FedUpWithFaith]

OK, I confess, every time I hear another story of religion-originated child abuse, part of me is glad. When some evangelist gets caught stealing some old woman's entire retirement savings, leaving her to die penniless, part of me smiles. I suppose if i knew and cared about the victims personally, I would be heartbroken. But I don't know 'em, so fuck 'em. They "pays their nickle and they takes their chances", as they say. OK, that's not true for children, they're truly innocent. The parents made 'em do it. How's that Catholic label working for them? Maybe the next time parents want to label they're kids they can have the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval stamped on their ass instead.

You know what would be funny? Somebody here should create one of those generic stick figure signs you see in offices but it should show a stick figure of a priest anal-raping a child. The caption could read:

"Warning, Catholic Priests Ahead."

I'll bet it would catch on. Tell the truth, wouldn't you want to stick one on the entrance sign to a Catholic building?