Palestine v Israel.

[Strontium Dog]

Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on Earth.

It's amazing how quickly this has become received wisdom.

Gaza has about 15,000 people per square mile*, which makes it as densely populated as Tel Aviv.

Manhattan is just under 73,000 people per square mile.

(*this assumes you believe Hamas figures, which are inflated so they receive bigger handouts)

[pErvinalia]

Imagine excusing Israel's murder of citizens. How sick must you be?

[Brian Peacock]

Yeah, SD likes to dispute the detail, as if the point wholly rests on it. I mean, imagine the same amount of ordinance dropped on Tel Aviv over the same period of time under the same conditions of a blockade and with the population hemmed in on all sides. It would be slaughter.

[Strontium Dog]

Imagine excusing Israel's murder of citizens. How sick must you be?

How sick must a person be to describe a completely legal war of defence as murder.

[Svartalf]

Imagine excusing Israel's murder of citizens. How sick must you be?

How sick must a person be to describe a completely legal war of defence as murder.

How sick must one be to describe the invaders and despoilers as fighting a righteous defensive war?

[Strontium Dog]

Imagine excusing Israel's murder of citizens. How sick must you be?

How sick must a person be to describe a completely legal war of defence as murder.

How sick must one be to describe the invaders and despoilers as fighting a righteous defensive war?

How much of a racist must a person be to describe native Judeans in Judea as invaders and despoilers.

[pErvinalia]

Imagine excusing Israel's murder of citizens. How sick must you be?

How sick must a person be to describe a completely legal war of defence as murder.

Slaughtering babies and children and general citizens isn't defence. You really are a despicable human being.

[rainbow]

Imagine excusing Israel's murder of citizens. How sick must you be?

How sick must a person be to describe a completely legal war of defence as murder.

All war is murder.

[Brian Peacock]

Imagine excusing Israel's murder of citizens. How sick must you be?

How sick must a person be to describe a completely legal war of defence as murder.

How sick must one be to describe the invaders and despoilers as fighting a righteous defensive war?

How much of a racist must a person be to describe native Judeans in Judea as invaders and despoilers.

Hmm. Is that what you really wanted to say? You don't feel a little qualification might be in order?

[Brian Peacock]

I think it's worth keeping in mind that we're dealing with issues that encompass at least 100 years of cross-generational trauma. This trauma shouldn't be underplayed because it deeply informs the perspectives all parties, and people far away from the bombs, whi can be, and are being directly impacted by what's going on in the region due to their ethnic, religious, &/or cultural identity or background.

For this reason I think it's better to confine ourselves to moral and ethical matters and to leave the overtly personal stuff aside. At some point the fighting will abate, and then peace can only be secured if all parties can thrash out and integrate a shared moral framework that avoids apportioning blame - specifically because apportioning blame by one side is being used as justification for acts of violence upon the other. I know this seems far from achievable at the moment, but the example of what has been achieved in Northern Ireland at least offers some possibility of hope.

I could say a lot more, but I'll leave it there for now.

[Strontium Dog]

Slaughtering babies and children and general citizens isn't defence. You really are a despicable human being.

You're revolting. A war has been forced on Israel, yet again. You don't think they would prefer to be left alone? What is it about native people defending themselves that upsets you so much?

Oh, wait, you're Australian. No wonder you sympathise with racist colonisers stealing people's land.

[Brian Peacock]

I don't think it's helpful, or realistic to imply that Israel are the blameless victims here. It denudes the discussion of some really important historical, political and military context.

[Strontium Dog]

I don't think for one second that Israel are completely spotless. Is anyone? However, illegal settlements in no way justifies the wanton slaughter of 1400 people, and any country would respond militarily against a force that did that.

[Brian Peacock]

I'm not justifying the actions of Hamas. I'm suggesting that ignoring Israel's role as an occupying force with superior forces, and framing Israel's part in the conflict as one in which the IDF are fighting for indigenous rights, denudes the discussion of some really important historical, political and military context.

[rainbow]

I don't think for one second that Israel are completely spotless. Is anyone? However, illegal settlements in no way justifies the wanton slaughter of 1400 people, and any country would respond militarily against a force that did that.

Who is justifying the slaughter?

Taking revenge on a civilian population is a war crime - whether by the IDF or Hamas.

How is this difficult to understand?