Republicans: continued

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Joe
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Joe » Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:56 pm

Cunt wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:41 pm
How many of those 'legal examinations' were dismissed on standing, vs how many were examined?
Enough of both to establish Trump lost and didn't have a case. In US law, standing is where a plaintiff shows enough evidence that they have a case, and the Court can do something about it. Anybody can sue, it's their 1st Amendment right. But the burden of proof is on them and the Trump team couldn't do it. They lost on the merits too, when they got to that point.

I read several of the rulings and what Trump's people were asking was crazy, They weren't even trying to prove fraud, just trying to get the result tossed because of irregularities that affected a handful of voters. They lost 60 cases and man they caught a lot of flak from judges for bringing bullshit suits. Here's a sample from Pennsylvania.
In this action, the Trump Campaign and the Individual Plaintiffs (collectively, the “Plaintiffs”) seek to discard millions of votes legally cast by Pennsylvanians from all corners – from Greene County to Pike County, and everywhere in between. In other words, Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens.

That has not happened. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more. At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted. Therefore, I grant Defendants’ motions and dismiss Plaintiffs’ action with prejudice.
That's judge speak for, "You bitches don't have shit. Now get the fuck out of my courtroom and don't come back."

But hey, nevermind all the recounts and audits that all showed Biden won, crazy legal theories and speculation with some hearsay and innuendo thrown in should be enough for the conspiracy nuts to yammer about for at least as long as the moon landing wackos have. :{D
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Tero » Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:06 am

Cunt wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:41 pm
How many of those 'legal examinations' were dismissed on standing, vs how many were examined?

Oh, and while you clearly believe the establishment narrative, was everything described in the Ball article fair game?

If so, will you still think so in 2024 when the Republicans copy their playbook?
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Joe » Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:09 am

I don't think he's realized that Kamala Harris will preside over the electoral college vote counting in 2024. :whisper:
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Cunt » Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:59 am

Joe wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:56 pm
That's judge speak for, "You bitches don't have shit. Now get the fuck out of my courtroom and don't come back."

But hey, nevermind all the recounts and audits that all showed Biden won, crazy legal theories and speculation with some hearsay and innuendo thrown in should be enough for the conspiracy nuts to yammer about for at least as long as the moon landing wackos have. :{D
An excellent example of a judges thoughts on a bad case. Probably, I've heard plenty of both sides. With corporate censorship of some stories in media known, it's more than a little suspicious.

What was that Macdonald line
Norm wrote:It says here in this history book that; luckily, the good guys have won every single time. What are the odds?
I'm aware there are both kinds of stories out there. Just not sure I'm willing to trust the lockstep gang on this one.

Complaining about unfair elections is common enough.

Heck, I think Stacey Abrams is still going on about her loss.

She's not been arrested for it, but I guess that is reserved for the privileged.

You haven't convinced me with a very convincing snippet, but you likely knew that. You might enjoy Robert Barnes in podcast form, if you wanted to hear out a different position. He has a lot more expertise in the legal details than I do. He also has a different view on 'standing' than the courts currently take.

If only they had shown competency in taking the step of censoring this 'election interference 2020' conspiracy theory, the world wouldn't be in this jam.

And Trump certainly wouldn't be leading in polls. ;)
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Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by JimC » Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:13 am

Back in '16, many people were upset by Trump's win over Clinton. None of that translated into claims of electoral fraud, or that Trump stole the election...
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Cunt » Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:22 am

JimC wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:13 am
Back in '16, many people were upset by Trump's win over Clinton. None of that translated into claims of electoral fraud, or that Trump stole the election...
:funny:

Every harpy on the left was screeching 'Russian Collusion' . Heck, they 'operation mockingbird' that shit so hard, some people probably STILL believe it.

But no-one believes Trump's win was respected by the Dems. Look how desperately they STILL act around him. And he hasn't been in charge for years now.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by JimC » Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:29 am

Cunt wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:22 am
JimC wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:13 am
Back in '16, many people were upset by Trump's win over Clinton. None of that translated into claims of electoral fraud, or that Trump stole the election...
:funny:

Every harpy on the left was screeching 'Russian Collusion' . Heck, they 'operation mockingbird' that shit so hard, some people probably STILL believe it.

But no-one believes Trump's win was respected by the Dems. Look how desperately they STILL act around him. And he hasn't been in charge for years now.
Saying that some malign pressure from a foreign government with its own interests in boosting Trump occurred in the lead up to the election is not the same thing as saying that Trump actually lost, and Clinton won, because voting was rigged. Nobody at all said that in '16...
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:47 am


Cunt wrote:
You haven't convinced me with a very convincing snippet,
It's impossible to convince you as you are permanently confused, apparently, and don't understand words.
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Joe » Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:11 am

Cunt wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:59 am
Joe wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:56 pm
That's judge speak for, "You bitches don't have shit. Now get the fuck out of my courtroom and don't come back."

But hey, nevermind all the recounts and audits that all showed Biden won, crazy legal theories and speculation with some hearsay and innuendo thrown in should be enough for the conspiracy nuts to yammer about for at least as long as the moon landing wackos have. :{D
An excellent example of a judges thoughts on a bad case. Probably, I've heard plenty of both sides. With corporate censorship of some stories in media known, it's more than a little suspicious.

What was that Macdonald line
Norm wrote:It says here in this history book that; luckily, the good guys have won every single time. What are the odds?
I'm aware there are both kinds of stories out there. Just not sure I'm willing to trust the lockstep gang on this one.

Complaining about unfair elections is common enough.

Heck, I think Stacey Abrams is still going on about her loss.

She's not been arrested for it, but I guess that is reserved for the privileged.

You haven't convinced me with a very convincing snippet, but you likely knew that. You might enjoy Robert Barnes in podcast form, if you wanted to hear out a different position. He has a lot more expertise in the legal details than I do. He also has a different view on 'standing' than the courts currently take.

If only they had shown competency in taking the step of censoring this 'election interference 2020' conspiracy theory, the world wouldn't be in this jam.

And Trump certainly wouldn't be leading in polls. ;)
I guess you missed the part where I said I read the rulings myself. I skipped the stories and reached my own conclusions.I don't do that all the time, but sometimes I just want to see for myself. :read:
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Cunt » Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:16 am

With your interest, I do think you would enjoy Barnes.

But if you favour the doctrine of 'standing', you might not. He definitely thinks differently.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:27 am

Joe wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:56 pm
In US law, standing is where a plaintiff shows enough evidence that they have a case, and the Court can do something about it.
That sounds to me like something between 'cause of action' and 'standing.' In general 'standing' refers to a claim of harm of some sort to the plaintiff, which as you say would be redressable via a judgement from the court. If somebody comes to the court but cannot show that they've suffered harm, the court will dismiss their case for lack of standing. For instance, the US Supreme Court rejected the case in Sierra Club v. Morton, ruling that the Sierra Club had not demonstrated that it would suffer harm if, at the invitation of the US Forest Service, some jackasses (Walt Disney Company) bulldozed a pristine valley in a National Forest to make a ski resort--lack of standing.

I agree with the gist of your post though. In the Trump election cases, lack of standing was (when it came up--which was not in all of them) usually only part of the cause for dismissal, along with lack of evidence, unreliable evidence, implausible or vague allegations, and sometimes for lack of jurisdiction. When standing was not part of the ruling, the other issues were at the forefront--the plaintiffs simply did not have sufficient evidence to support their cases.

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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by rasetsu » Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:06 am

It's also worth pointing out that if there were actual fraud, the standing issues are surmountable, if one isn't harmed by fraud, at least someone was harmed by it. That these cases weren't refiled with proper standing is a fault that lies on the plaintiffs, and if we're going to entertain suspicions, one has to ask why they didn't do so?

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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:22 am

That's easy. They didn't re-petition because they know the system is rigged ...

... against liars.
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Joe » Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:10 pm

Yep, all good stuff on standing. I recently learned there are cases where standing can be found in the case of anticipated harm. This is what happened in the 303 Creative v. Elenis case. Most rulings on standing recap the three tests that must be met: an injury in fact, the defendent caused the injury, and the court can redress the harm.

But that's a lot for our member from Yellowknife to take in so I simplified it a bit.

While standing weeds out the frivilous suits, such as the Trump election nonsense, its basically a test to meet the Article III requirement for there to be a case in order for the courts to intervene. If you can't demonstrate standing, you don't have a case, and the court should dismiss the suit.
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Re: Republicans: continued

Post by Cunt » Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:14 pm

Well, at least the Speaker of the House isn't tricked by CNN and MSNBC.

But the establishment view is quite persistent. If only they had been more successful in their censorship, they could have avoided all this.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate
Free speech anywhere, is a threat to tyrants everywhere.

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