Global Climate Change Science News

[Hermit]

Basically we're fucked...

Looking at history, the masses have always been controlled by elites. Some elites have just controlled them more intelligently than others. Were I forced to choose between living in one of the Nordic or one of the Benelux countries it would not take me long to decide. For various reasons I don't want to live in any European country, so I feel lucky not to choose between either. I prefer to stay where I am right now, thank you.

[Scot Dutchy]

Is it jealousy? Worrying about this tiny country when your country is being dug up and sold to every Tom, Dick and Harry in Asia. Ozland fails on so many levels and is only slightly less worse than America. It could not care about the rest of the world and never has. Along with Fernland it has always considered itself the exception. It does not apply to us attitude. Our problems are miniscule in comparison. Why does Ozland not stop coal and oil production tomorrow? Dont go on about that international crap. It is your country so control it but you wont and keep on finger pointing at the rest of the world.
Hermit you cant even envisage living in a Northern European Social Democracy so just live in your misguided and corrupt country. I also know where I want to live and the last place would be Ozland or even Fernland.

[Scot Dutchy]

Of course this country tops everything:

Is Biden serious about climate? His 2,000 drilling and fracking permits suggest not

Just when we must be rejecting new drilling, fracking and pipeline infrastructure, Biden isn’t just tolerating fossil fuels - he’s uplifting them

The latest report from the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change paints a stark and sobering picture: a global future of extreme weather events that are guaranteed to become more frequent and more intense over coming decades. The horrific flooding that has recently shocked Europe will become more common. The unrelenting fires that have engulfed the western United States and Canada will intensify and widen. And some island nations, it seems, may already be doomed to eradication by inevitable sea level rise.

The only glimmer of hope offered in the IPCC report is that immediate, aggressive action by world leaders could still prevent a future of assured climate chaos from being even worse. As devastating as a 1.5C global temperature increase will be, a 2.5C increase would be unfathomable.

Being the historical top emitter of climate-killing greenhouse gases, the United States has a clear obligation to help lead the world in rapidly reducing emissions and transitioning the planet to clean, renewable energy. Yet every indication thus far from the Biden administration suggests that this critical, urgent action won’t be coming.

[Brian Peacock]

Is it jealousy? Worrying about this tiny country when your country is being dug up and sold to every Tom, Dick and Harry in Asia. Ozland fails on so many levels and is only slightly less worse than America. It could not care about the rest of the world and never has. Along with Fernland it has always considered itself the exception. It does not apply to us attitude. Our problems are miniscule in comparison. Why does Ozland not stop coal and oil production tomorrow? Dont go on about that international crap. It is your country so control it but you wont and keep on finger pointing at the rest of the world.
Hermit you cant even envisage living in a Northern European Social Democracy so just live in your misguided and corrupt country. I also know where I want to live and the last place would be Ozland or even Fernland.

Who's 'worrying about your tiny country'? I've mentioned your tiny country as an example, in order to show that each country has its own challenges and needs to address them in their own context. A challenge for the Ozzies is the dispersed global ownership of their fossil fuel sector. A challenge for the Dutch is the dispersed global ownership of their finance sector which processes investments in the World's fossil fuel sector. This 'international crap' is just an acknowledgement that the fossil fuel energy economy is a trans-national reality. Australian coal and oil production is a problem for the Netherlands because it's a problem for the World. Dutch investment in fossil fuel is a problem for Australia because it's a problem for the World.

As I pointed out Dutch private investment in, and government subsidies to the fossil fuel sector have risen in recent years, so if it's valid to ask, "Why does Ozland not stop coal and oil production tomorrow?", then it's valid to ask, "Why does Dutchland not stop coal and oil investment tomorrow?"

As I also pointed out, the NL has a large concentration of energy and emission-intensive industries and remains heavily reliant on fossil fuels, to the tune of fossil fuels comprising 90% of NL total primary energy supply. So if it's valid to ask, "Why does Ozland not stop coal and oil production tomorrow?", and I think it is, then it's also valid to ask, "Why does Dutchland not stop using coal, oil, and gas tomorrow?"

The answer of course is that neither nation can instantly extract itself from an interconnected global fossil fuel energy economy, but they can each do a lot more in their own way in relation to the part they play in that economy.

[BarnettNewman]

Scot would like to pretend that these coal piles don’t exist.

https://flickr.com/photos/34256037@N00/ ... 2379768465

[Scot Dutchy]

Based on old data Brian. If Ozland stopped producing what would there be to invest in. Putting the cart before the horse I am afraid. How much are our poultry investments (which are being reduced rapidly and moved into sustainable fuels) compared to China or America?

Coal is mined in every state of Australia. The largest black coal resources occur mainly in Queensland and New South Wales.[1] About 70% of coal mined in Australia is exported, mostly to eastern Asia,[2] and of the balance most is used in electricity generation. Coal production in Australia increased 13.6% between 2005 and 2010 and 5.3% between 2009 and 2010.[3] In 2016, Australia was the biggest net exporter of coal, with 32% of global exports (389 Mt out of 1,213 Mt total), and was the fourth-highest producer with 6.9% of global production (503 Mt out of 7,269 Mt total). 77% of production was exported (389 Mt out of 503 Mt total).[4] In 2019-20 Australia exported 390 Mt of coal (177 Mt metallurgical coal and 213 Mt thermal coal) as was the world's largest exporter of metallurgical coal and second largest exporter of thermal coal.[5]

That is not nothing. We on the other hand are aiming to reduce hot house gases by 95% in 2050. What are Ozland's aims?

[Cunt]

I think the top ten worst national governments in regards to environmental policies are:
1. China
2. China
3. China
4. Mainland Taiwan
5. China
6. China
7. China
8. China
9. China
10. China

It's weird how the countries which have been most willing to improve, are the ones regularly vilified. I guess it wouldn't do any good to take a shot at Winnie The Poo-head...

[Brian Peacock]

Based on old data Brian.

What are you referring to?

If Ozland stopped producing what would there be to invest in. Putting the cart before the horse I am afraid.

And they couldn't afford to produce without the investment and the subsidies. The cart and the horse are more of a chicken and an egg.

How much are our poultry investments (which are being reduced rapidly and moved into sustainable fuels) compared to China or America?

I would imagine relatively less, though still substantial in their own terms. I presume you have something more than a my vague intuitions though - so let's see your comparison.

Coal is mined in every state of Australia. The largest black coal resources occur mainly in Queensland and New South Wales.[1] About 70% of coal mined in Australia is exported, mostly to eastern Asia,[2] and of the balance most is used in electricity generation. Coal production in Australia increased 13.6% between 2005 and 2010 and 5.3% between 2009 and 2010.[3] In 2016, Australia was the biggest net exporter of coal, with 32% of global exports (389 Mt out of 1,213 Mt total), and was the fourth-highest producer with 6.9% of global production (503 Mt out of 7,269 Mt total). 77% of production was exported (389 Mt out of 503 Mt total).[4] In 2019-20 Australia exported 390 Mt of coal (177 Mt metallurgical coal and 213 Mt thermal coal) as was the world's largest exporter of metallurgical coal and second largest exporter of thermal coal.[5]

That is not nothing. We on the other hand are aiming to reduce hot house gases by 95% in 2050. What are Ozland's aims?

Who has claimed that Ozzie coal production is nothing? It wasn't me. You're arguing against someone who isn't there.

The issue isn't about future promises but present action. Saying you'll reduce your GHG emissions by 95% in 2050 is meaningless if the policy leaves the bulk of that reduction for some unspecified time in the future. Also, what are we talking about here? 95% of what? To date, global GHG emissions have risen by 40% since the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change was ratified in 1992, so is that 95% of current levels, 95% of projected levels, or 95% of some fixed point level? In other words, that statement alone mean nothing without some further context.

As I mentioned, the EU has an aspiration for all member states to reach 55% of their 1990 emission levels by 2030, and yet fossil fuel investment and government subsidies in the NL have risen substantially in the last half a decade while reliance on fossil fuels has fallen only slightly. How can we interpret the rise in investment and subsidy in relation to that aspiration to significantly reduce emission in the next eight years?

[Hermit]

If Ozland stopped producing what would there be to invest in. Putting the cart before the horse I am afraid.

You are putting the cart before the horse. More than three quarters of Australian coal mines would have closed down by now if other nations had stopped buying its coal. The Netherlands could have contributed to the the closing process. It has not. In 2018 it bought $1.9 billion dollars worth of Australian coal. Not only that, but it imports coal from other countries too. Last year the Netherlands ranked 18th globally in terms of coal imports when it bought US$714,786,000 worth of the stuff. I suggest that does not make for a pretty picture, considering the Netherlands ranks 69th globally in terms of population.

We on the other hand are aiming to reduce hot house gases by 95% in 2050. What are Ozland's aims?

Why do you keep asking? I have already told you that Australia has no aims it realistically aims at. Not that aims matter. Results do. Look at the Kyoto agreement. The Netherlands were among the nations who failed to reach the target they signed up for.

[Scot Dutchy]

Unsupported claims. Your lot just pollute and pollute. Million of tons of coal exported to all over Asia. Well done take a gold star.

[Hermit]

Unsupported claims.

That's a bit rich coming from someone who says he does not rely on data. No worries, though. Here come links to the data:

In 2018 the Netherlands bought $1.9 billion dollars worth of Australian coal.

Last year the Netherlands ranked 18th globally in terms of coal imports when it bought US$714,786,000 worth of the stuff

the Netherlands ranks 69th globally in terms of population

The Netherlands were among the nations who failed to reach the Kyoto agreement target they signed up for

Not that any of this matters. The central point of my previous post stands: More than three quarters of Australian coal mines would have closed down by now if other nations had stopped buying its coal. The Netherlands could have contributed to the the closing process. It has not.

[Scot Dutchy]

What a load of crap as always. What does that document say? Nothing. You shut the mines and then there is no coal to buy but you did not and flogged it to anyone. All you are doing is pointing fingers. It is everyone's fault but not yours. It is really ridiculous blaming the buyer. You lot sold it and still do. Really really ridiculous. It is your coal or are you denying that and you are selling it. Who buys it is of no consequence but plenty do. Really what an argument. Shut the mines, simple but of course you cant. It has been easy money and a customer that always buys; China. You have nothing else to replace it. You are fucked.

[Brian Peacock]

Who's your pension with Scot?

[JimC]

The issue of coal in Oz is a bit like the blame game with hard drugs. Do we blame the pushers, or do we realise that if the users got over their addiction, there would be no room for the pushers?

(yes, I know the analogy is full of holes, but what analogy isn't?)

[Sean Hayden]

...add to that the problem of assuming your current position is necessarily the result of x,y,z where each is under your control, and therefore likely to continue into the foreseeable future provided x,y,z stay consistent, and there's plenty of reason to knock Dutchy's exceptionalism.

...come on, what's a folksy saying about good fortune?