US Election 2020

[Tyrannical]

Trump just has to replay the ridiculous predictions if he were to be elected, to get re-elected.

[Sean Hayden]

Republicans in Texas have fought every effort to make voting easier. Harris County wanted to send a mail-in ballot to every voter. The Republicans sued to stop it. A judge ruled the county could do it anyway, but the all Republican Texas supreme court has said they can't until an appeal is heard. Governor Abbott has reduced the number of drop-off locations to one per county. For a bit of perspective, Harris county --Houston-- with about 5 million residents is the 3rd largest county in the US. If you've ever driven in Houston, then you know that having a single drop-off amounts to having no drop-offs for a whole lot of people.

These are just two examples from many of blatant suppression.

--//--

I'm sorry, but I'm no longer interested in why people vote Republican, even as an intellectual curiosity. I have nothing but contempt for a Republican that votes Trump. You can call that self-righteous all you like, but I've cut ties with close family over this, so don't expect me to care about being seen as holier-than-thou. We're well beyond meaningful reconciliation with these people. They simply have to become a largely irrelevant fringe.

[laklak]

That's sad, man.

[JimC]

One day, perhaps, you will see the benefit of a totally independent, nation-wide Electoral Commission.

Give us a buzz here in Oz - we'll show you how...

[Tero]

That can't happen. It's such a fundamental part of the law and tradition that states rule. Bush-Gore should never have gone to the supreme court. Possibly the Florida court.

[laklak]

Yep. It's hard for outsiders to understand just how big a deal State's Rights are here, particularly down South.

Mr. Blair, I look upon secession as anarchy. If I owned the four millions of slaves in the South, I would sacrifice them all to the Union; but how can I draw my sword upon Virginia, my native State?

Indeed, suh, how could one?

[JimC]

We have states too, and they have considerable responsibility, and sometimes a very combative relationship with the federal government. In recent coronavirus issues, for example, our state premier has imposed much harder restrictions than desired (for economic reasons) by the federal government. The feds pushed and whined, but the premier gave them the finger. Similar powers exist for law enforcement, hospitals and education. The feds have some financial leverage, of course, but state's rights are a political thing here too.

However, our Electoral Commission has complete jurisdiction over electoral boundaries, both state and federal, and the conduct of elections. There is simply no partisan political games played in that area.

Now basically, you guys are saying that a so-called modern, forward-looking country like your own is so bound by ancient tradition that you have to accept having your democratic processes subverted and distorted by political gamesmanship rather than find a rational solution.

A shame, really...

[laklak]

Who you callin' "modern" and "forward looking"? Them's fightin' words.

We have found a rational solution. It involves the Senate and E.C., and State's Rights (FAR beyond what you would consider acceptable). For good or ill that's what we did, and we made it difficult, though not impossible, to change. We need more than a simple majority to change the fundamental basis of our country and government, which is as it should be. Bunch of fucking kids running off half cocked, that's exactly what we don't need. Sober, mature heads must prevail. Nothing is fucked, Dude.

[Sean Hayden]

That's sad, man.

It's a sorry situation. But Trump represents a real break from what has mostly just been a difference of opinion. While I've been able to understand conservative ideals in the past, I find I can't understand their support for Trump. He's not a conservative, he's not even a Republican. He's nothing. So where does that leave the conservative ideals?

I'm afraid that for the Trump supporter it likely means they never had these ideals in mind. It's more likely that I was doing their thinking for them, and being too generous.

[JimC]

Who you callin' "modern" and "forward looking"? Them's fightin' words.

We have found a rational solution. It involves the Senate and E.C., and State's Rights (FAR beyond what you would consider acceptable). For good or ill that's what we did, and we made it difficult, though not impossible, to change. We need more than a simple majority to change the fundamental basis of our country and government, which is as it should be. Bunch of fucking kids running off half cocked, that's exactly what we don't need. Sober, mature heads must prevail. Nothing is fucked, Dude.

From Sean:

Republicans in Texas have fought every effort to make voting easier. Harris County wanted to send a mail-in ballot to every voter. The Republicans sued to stop it. A judge ruled the county could do it anyway, but the all Republican Texas supreme court has said they can't until an appeal is heard. Governor Abbott has reduced the number of drop-off locations to one per county. For a bit of perspective, Harris county --Houston-- with about 5 million residents is the 3rd largest county in the US. If you've ever driven in Houston, then you know that having a single drop-off amounts to having no drop-offs for a whole lot of people.

These are just two examples from many of blatant suppression.

Added to many other examples, from gerrymandering in the past to attempted voter suppression all over the place now, I'd say it's pretty fucked.

When you allow partisan politics to control the very mechanisms of democratic voting, you're basically fucked...

[L'Emmerdeur]

Leave it to the Trump judiciary to rule that non-partisan voting commissions are unconstitutional.

[Brian Peacock]

Racism is not just a feature of Capitalism, it's one of its driving principles.

You'll have to expand on that. Exploitation is a driving principle of capitalism. Colour of those exploited is irrelevant.

How long have you got and are you thinking about Capitalism in principle or in practice? In principle I'd admit that Capitalism could and would look about the same in a world without racism, and in a similar way I'd accept macdoc's point about how, in principle, Capital could operate without the necessity for perpetual growth. But what about Capitalism in practice? I'd suggest that it's how Capitalism operates in practice which reveals and describes it's foundations in principle - which is just to say that that I'm interested in how Capital operates in the real world today rather than how it might operate in the abstract sense or if circumstances were different.

If you're happy to accept that Capitalism in the real world today is the over-arching system of Power, would you also accept that racism is an endemic feature of that system? If so then the question turns to how much or to what extent is racism a feature of that system. To that question I'd say a lot, an awful lot, and it's always been there. In that respect I don't think that the concept of race, and the expression of that concept in racism, is irrelevant to an reading of Capital Power as we see it playing out today. So where does that leave us without going into a deeper analysis of racism (which we might have to do anyway)? In a nutshell...

- Capitalism is the over-arching system of Power.
- "Power" are just those forces and interests which devise, control, and enforce the systems by which society operates.
- Power has ensured and continues to ensure that racism is an endemic feature of those systems.
- Therefore Capitalism ensures or necessitates racism - in the same way that it ensures or necessitates exploitation more broadly, or the way it ensures and necessitates global warming and planetary death etc.

Hopefully this expands a bit on what I said earlier...

Racism is not just a feature of Capitalism, it's one of its driving principles. The systems we're obliged to live under make racism a necessity.

At this point we probably do have to look at the hows, whys, whats, and wherefores by which racism has been and continues to be a feature of the system, and perhaps this thread isn't the place for that. But as a way into that we could ask a question like, "Who scrubs our office toilets?", or "Where does our coffee come from?" or perhaps, "Who in our societies have been disproportionately affected by the Covid-19 crisis?" By this you might get the hint that my views on this come from a slightly different angle than a traditional reading of Class.

[pErvinalia]

Racism is not just a feature of Capitalism, it's one of its driving principles.

You'll have to expand on that. Exploitation is a driving principle of capitalism. Colour of those exploited is irrelevant.

How long have you got and are you thinking about Capitalism in principle or in practice? In principle I'd admit that Capitalism could and would look about the same in a world without racism, and in a similar way I'd accept macdoc's point about how, in principle, Capital could operate without the necessity for perpetual growth.

It definitely can't operate without perpetual growth, as that growth is needed to pay back the interest on the debt that drives the whole system.

If you're happy to accept that Capitalism in the real world today is the over-arching system of Power, would you also accept that racism is an endemic feature of that system?

Of course I wouldn't, as my previous post you've quoted states. Exploitation is endemic in the capitalist system. Colour is irrelevant. What makes you think that capital cares about the colour of the labour that is being exploited? Return on investment is primacy, not colour of those exploited. That there's also racism in our societies is apart from capitalism. As JimC noted, there was and is racism in socialist systems. It's basically endemic in an evolutionary sense to humans, not capitalism.

- Therefore Capitalism ensures or necessitates racism - in the same way that it ensures or necessitates exploitation more broadly, or the way it ensures and necessitates global warming and planetary death etc.

What point does racism serve in capitalism? Why would capital care what the colour of the person it exploited was? As I said, making profit is the whole point of capitalism, not treating darkies badly (i.e. any worse than it treats anyone else who has to sell their labour).

[pErvinalia]

At this point we probably do have to look at the hows, whys, whats, and wherefores by which racism has been and continues to be a feature of the system, and perhaps this thread isn't the place for that. But as a way into that we could ask a question like, "Who scrubs our office toilets?", or "Where does our coffee come from?" or perhaps, "Who in our societies have been disproportionately affected by the Covid-19 crisis?" By this you might get the hint that my views on this come from a slightly different angle than a traditional reading of Class.

You are probably putting the cart before the horse here. Racism has existed a lot longer than capitalism and on its own explains why certain races are disadvantaged in a capitalist system. Who is the best group to exploit in capitalism? Those that are already the most disadvantaged.

[Scot Dutchy]

That is of course a typical Anglo-Saxon point of view.