The Coronavirus Thread

[Tero]

I googled (scholar) a few months back, and there was a single study in China on nurses during Sars. There was a measurable effect wearing n95 masks vs no mask.

[Scot Dutchy]

For Germany, the new infections happen where people don't wear masks. Family celebrations, church services, schools (masks not mandatory in the class room), shared accommodations, ...

I have been to the city centre of Mannheim Saturday evening. Lots of people don't wear masks. Restaurants are packed, even indoors. Guests don't wear masks. Servers mostly also don't wear masks, although it would be mandatory. People ignore the rules. People are so stupid.

There is no evidence that masks work.

Care to provide some empirical data? Serious question. None of the peer reviewed studies I have seen referenced support your assertion.

Debunking the "masks don't work" crap here and here.

Yep great empirical evidence. A magazine that is laughed at. Please dont insult.
Once again I dont have to prove a negative. If you claim they work prove it. What are the specifications for masks that are considered to qualify as working? Also what is the protocol for using them?

[Scot Dutchy]

...

Cases are rising in Spain, Germany, France and Belgium

With no agreed-upon scientific definition, the term “second wave” has been used to mean anything from localised spikes in infection to full-blown national crises, leading some experts to avoid it.

“‘Second wave’ isn’t a term that we would use [in epidemiology] at the current time, as the virus hasn’t gone away, it’s in our population, it has spread to 188 countries so far, and what we are seeing now is essentially localised spikes or a localised return of a large number of cases,” said Linda Bauld, professor of public health at the University of Edinburgh.

Got keep that paranoia going. Masks here are not going to be compulsory nationally.

Second wave just refers to the shape of a graph - an observation that in the contexts there's a 'return of a large number of cases'.

Not according to the experts. The definition game.

[rainbow]

Once again I dont have to prove a negative.

Prove it!

[rainbow]

They're not mandatory in Netherlands, therefore they don't work.

They have the best masks that don't work.

...I've been told.

[Brian Peacock]

Deaths per head of population are twice as high in the Netherlands as the UK.

Official covid deaths in the Netherlands stand at 6,145 out a population of 17.28m: 1 in 2812.
UK deaths at 45,878 out of 66.65m: 1 in 1452.

[rainbow]

Deaths per head of population are twice as high in the Netherlands as the UK.

Official covid deaths in the Netherlands stand at 6,145 out a population of 17.28m: 1 in 2812.
UK deaths at 45,878 out of 66.65m: 1 in 1452.

Proof that Dutch masks are twice as good at failing compared to the UK ones.

[Hermit]

Once again I dont have to prove a negative. If you claim they work prove it.

Once again, a negative claim asserts the non-existence or exclusion of something. That is not what you have done. You have made the positive claim that masks are ineffective. That is a positive claim. It is incumbent on you to provide empirical evidence in support of your claim.

What are the specifications for masks that are considered to qualify as working? Also what is the protocol for using them?

You have not actually read the articles I linked to, have you? If you had, you would have something to say why the empirical evidence showing that masks do work is wrong, and you would have linked to empirical studies supporting your assertion.

[Tero]

masks
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/m20-1342

flu study and SARS

Most of the evidence about the use of PPE in viral infections is based on Influenza models. Despite the known similarities in term of transmission, they should be considered with caution in the context of SARS-CoV-2 infections. A recent systematic review and meta-analysis evaluated the effectiveness of N95 respirators versus medical masks for the prevention of influenza. It included six randomized clinical trials for a total of 9171 participants. No significant differences were found between the use of N95 respirators and medical masks for the outcomes of laboratory confirmed respiratory viral infections (RR = 0.89, 95% CI 0.70-1.11), laboratory-confirmed influenza (RR = 1.09, 95% CI 0.92-1.28), laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection (RR = 0.74, 95% CI 0.42-1.29) or influenza like illness (RR = 0.61, 95% CI 0.33-1.14). One of the trials included was actually done in a household setting. The authors concluded suggesting that N95 respirators should not be recommended for the general public and healthcare workers performing low-risk procedures.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 372030088X

[Hermit]

masks
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/m20-1342

flu study and SARS

Most of the evidence about the use of PPE in viral infections is based on Influenza models. Despite the known similarities in term of transmission, they should be considered with caution in the context of SARS-CoV-2 infections. A recent systematic review and meta-analysis evaluated the effectiveness of N95 respirators versus medical masks for the prevention of influenza. It included six randomized clinical trials for a total of 9171 participants. No significant differences were found between the use of N95 respirators and medical masks for the outcomes of laboratory confirmed respiratory viral infections (RR = 0.89, 95% CI 0.70-1.11), laboratory-confirmed influenza (RR = 1.09, 95% CI 0.92-1.28), laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection (RR = 0.74, 95% CI 0.42-1.29) or influenza like illness (RR = 0.61, 95% CI 0.33-1.14). One of the trials included was actually done in a household setting. The authors concluded suggesting that N95 respirators should not be recommended for the general public and healthcare workers performing low-risk procedures.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 372030088X

Yes, a recent systematic review and meta-analysis evaluated the effectiveness of N95 respirators versus medical masks and no significant differences were found between the use of N95 respirators and medical masks. What the meta-analysis did not attempt to resolve - chiefly because none of the studies it looked at were concerned about the issue - is whether the use of masks of any kind reduced or prevented the spread of infections. As for the inefficacy of N95 masks used in household settings by the general public and healthcare workers performing low-risk procedures: Duh.

Also, the article you quoted from has been retracted.

[Scot Dutchy]

Deaths per head of population are twice as high in the Netherlands as the UK.

Official covid deaths in the Netherlands stand at 6,145 out a population of 17.28m: 1 in 2812.
UK deaths at 45,878 out of 66.65m: 1 in 1452.

Prove it. The UK is so corrupt.

[Brian Peacock]

Deaths per head of population are twice as high in the Netherlands as the UK.

Official covid deaths in the Netherlands stand at 6,145 out a population of 17.28m: 1 in 2812.
UK deaths at 45,878 out of 66.65m: 1 in 1452.

Prove it. The UK is so corrupt.

What proof would you accept? Obviously the NL gov is massaging the figures to make themselves look ... better, or worse eh?

[Scot Dutchy]

At least our government does not claim the figures are accurate. Just the best available which is why the have stopped issuing daily figures.
If there was a P.M. carried out on every dead body would I be satisfied.

[Tero]

No mask for Scotty, so more masks for me.

I got a pack of 10 KN95 masks that are not official, not tested. Each mask should work easily 10 times. Good fit around the nose. But the rubber band is a bit tight. Makes my ears stick out.

[Brian Peacock]

At least our government does not claim the figures are accurate. Just the best available which is why the have stopped issuing daily figures.
If there was a P.M. carried out on every dead body would I be satisfied.

But Scot, how can you even begin to trust the say-so of the NL gov on what the best available figures are? All gov data is political, for better or worse.