Disgust Incorporated

[Scot Dutchy]

Jesus Fuckin Christ On a Harley Davidson

Not low enough for some people.

[Svartalf]

Nobody will soil my chopper with body fluids.

[Brian Peacock]

[JimC]

Wow, Oppression inc is serious about their business...
so, not wearing a mask when required is liable to get you a €135 fine if it goes to the point you get ticketed for it...
but if you get ticketed again within 3 weeks, the fine goes up to over €6.0000
and if you get ticketed three times within the space of a month, you become liable to 6 months in jail...

JFCOHD

From this Thursday, Melburnians get a $200 fine if they're out in public without a mask...

[NineBerry]

Over here (Baden-Württemberg), the fine for not wearing a mask where it is required is 15 to 30 €

[JimC]

Cheapskates!

[Svartalf]

well, the Germans are so conformist they don't need as much deterrence...

[JimC]

Good point...

[Scot Dutchy]

We don't pay fines but taxes. This law was brought in about 20 years ago when courts were having a backlog of cases of people not paying speeding fines. It was turned into a tax and was treated as a non tax payment. This was only for minor offences. Now this covers everything that is not a crime. The advantage is speed because the court is not involved. If you are speeding you are sent a tax demand. If you dont pay in time an additional tax is imposed (hefty) and if keep on refusing to pay then it is given to the 'deurwaarders' (bailiffs). If want to challenge the demand you can and take to an arbitrator who will judge it. An American friend ignored the demand once and a €90 demand turned into €3000 and she received a visit. All within 3 months.
The biggest problem is the fact that a black mark is put against your creditworthiness.

[Svartalf]

You mean your fines are treated as due taxes, and if you don't pay, you can get the money forcefully taken (and I assume with hefty extras to make you regret they had to use the procedure) without you even having access to a judicial review of the case?

Duth tyranny and injustice are the best tyranny and injustice.

[pErvinalia]

[Scot Dutchy]

You mean your fines are treated as due taxes, and if you don't pay, you can get the money forcefully taken (and I assume with hefty extras to make you regret they had to use the procedure) without you even having access to a judicial review of the case?

Duth tyranny and injustice are the best tyranny and injustice.

What is tyrannical about it? You can go to arbitrator the same as in all tax cases. If you dont pay fines you end up in court and can get custodial sentence and a criminal record. What is worse? It takes far more time. In most offences the evidence is usually pretty conclusive. By the time the bailiffs come you would have been offered enough alternative methods of payment. In this way all the offences are removed from the criminal sphere.

[Brian Peacock]

Does it mean the rich can continue to drive too fast as long as they keep paying their 'taxes'?

[Scot Dutchy]

Everyone has to pay these taxes.

[Svartalf]

You mean your fines are treated as due taxes, and if you don't pay, you can get the money forcefully taken (and I assume with hefty extras to make you regret they had to use the procedure) without you even having access to a judicial review of the case?

Duth tyranny and injustice are the best tyranny and injustice.

What is tyrannical about it? You can go to arbitrator the same as in all tax cases. If you dont pay fines you end up in court and can get custodial sentence and a criminal record. What is worse? It takes far more time. In most offences the evidence is usually pretty conclusive. By the time the bailiffs come you would have been offered enough alternative methods of payment. In this way all the offences are removed from the criminal sphere.

what is tyrannical? technically, subjecting fines to the recovery regime of taxes might not be, but since fines are for offences, taking away to fined party's right to a normal trial if he does not agree to being guilty and paying the fine is a rather egregious attainder to fundamental rights of citizens in a modern state. I mean, finable offences are their own offence, tagging them as tax offences in addition is not right, and I don't like the arbitration procedure because sorry, I don't have the slightest inkling whether the arbitrator offers the same guarantees of independence and impartiality as a real court.