Objective Reality

[rainbow]

Within Schroedinger's Universe existence can only be established by observation.

Discuss.

[pErvinalia]

Define "observation". More accurately it is probably better to say "interaction".

[Hermit]

May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.

[rainbow]

Define "observation". More accurately it is probably better to say "interaction".

Exactly.

Does a bacon and cheese sandwich still taste good if nobody has eaten it yet?
Are the components more tasty when combined, that is - an interaction?
If so, does this imply consiousness?

[rainbow]

May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.

Talking about garlic, if Aliens were to land in France, might they not deduce that humans smell slightly odd?

[Svartalf]

What's odd with the smell of garlic? it's those who don't eat it in proper amounts that are weird.

[rainbow]

Mais Il faut manger pour vivre et non vivre pour manger, non?

[Hermit]

May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.

Talking about garlic, if Aliens were to land in France, might they not deduce that humans smell slightly odd?

If Aliens were to land in France I'd expect them to be of a sufficiently advanced mindset to avoid making such a mistake. Of course the mistake is not the perception that the frogs smell slightly odd. It is the awareness that humans they have no experience of may not necessarily emanate the same stench as those whose olfactory assaults they have endured. In short, they would have learnt the lesson Bertrand Russell's turkey did not.

[Svartalf]

Mais Il faut manger pour vivre et non vivre pour manger, non?

Foutaise.

[JimC]

My take:

There is a real, material universe, not some weird spirit realm. However, our ability to accurately model this reality is severely limited, in that evolution has designed our cognitive apparatus to work in a quick and dirty way, so our personal models are excellent at avoiding sabre tooth tigers and mating, but not so good at discerning what lies behind. Science and maths let us get deeper in, but the picture of reality that emerges becomes, inevitably, more and more distant from the personal cognitive models that have worked so well in a survival sense.

[Brian Peacock]

May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.

Talking about garlic, if Aliens were to land in France, might they not deduce that humans smell slightly odd?

Only if they had some kind of schema classifying the range of human olfactory experience in relation to the socially constructed normative values associated with the perception of certain combinations of air-born molecules.

I for one believe that our true lizard masters smell like rose petals cast upon a harvest breeze.

[rainbow]

Mais Il faut manger pour vivre et non vivre pour manger, non?

Foutaise.

Les conneries sont de la nourriture pour l'exquis

[rainbow]

May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.

Talking about garlic, if Aliens were to land in France, might they not deduce that humans smell slightly odd?

Only if they had some kind of schema classifying the range of human olfactory experience in relation to the socially constructed normative values associated with the perception of certain combinations of air-born molecules.

I for one believe that our true lizard masters smell like rose petals cast upon a harvest breeze.

...a bit like β-ionone with a touch of geraniol and perhaps some tones of geosmin?

[rainbow]

My take:

There is a real, material universe, not some weird spirit realm. However, our ability to accurately model this reality is severely limited, in that evolution has designed our cognitive apparatus to work in a quick and dirty way, so our personal models are excellent at avoiding sabre tooth tigers and mating, but not so good at discerning what lies behind. Science and maths let us get deeper in, but the picture of reality that emerges becomes, inevitably, more and more distant from the personal cognitive models that have worked so well in a survival sense.

A bit tedious, but some good stuff:

[laklak]

We're amoebas crawling around a petri dish, bumping into the sides and making up stories about it all.

... I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.

That is a damn good idea for dinner tonight. Cooking for one is a pain. Might even order a pie, you know, splurge. Live a little.