What if Vegans are Actually Right?

[laklak]

They might, but most of them shit in the streets so WTF do they know?

[Scot Dutchy]

The whole thing is a mockery. Poor people can't afford to be vegetarians and they dont have a veg and fruit rich diet as a consequence. Vegetarianism tends to be a middle class thing.

Not so sure about that. Meat prices here are very, very high. Having a vegetarian diet (including dairy) is certainly a cheaper option in Oz...

Well here Jim processed meat is very cheap and available in bulk. We are not talking steak or even mince. A box of hamburger deep freeze patties costs next to nothing. Along with deep freeze chips you have bulk meal. Forget the fruit and veg. We are talking about a small minority in this case which is a much larger section in the UK. Companies like Iceland are not pushing healthy diets.
Generally meat is not expensive. Our food is cheap if you dont go for the organic option which I personally do.

[Scot Dutchy]

The whole thing is a mockery. Poor people can't afford to be vegetarians and they dont have a veg and fruit rich diet as a consequence. Vegetarianism tends to be a middle class thing.

400 000 000 Indians might disagree with that view.

Different culture. Proves nothing.

[Brian Peacock]

The whole thing is a mockery. Poor people can't afford to be vegetarians and they dont have a veg and fruit rich diet as a consequence. Vegetarianism tends to be a middle class thing.

Poor people can't afford stuff full stop, and while food poverty and security are real problems for many people, in the West and around the world, as a vegetarian on a fixed income I can tell you that I can buy 2 days worth of fruit and veg for the price of a 4-pack of chicken breasts. I couldn't afford to eat meat every day, or if I did I'd have to go for the cheaper processed meat products. Meat costs more to produce than veg by any measure, and the calorie difference between what a pound of meat contains and what it takes to produce it is orders of magnitude greater than for fruit and veg etc. In other words, your economic opinion is skewed towards 'wrong' I'm afraid simply because vegetarians buy and eat everything non-vegetarians buy and eat with the exception of one particular kind of culinary ingredient.

And while we're in the realm of sweeping statements here then I'd suggest that, if anything, being an organo-obsessive 'tends to be a middle class thing,' as having the luxury of that kind of choice definitely does come at a economic premium.

Look, I'm discussing this not to convince or convert anybody but just to represent the veg*n perspective - and certainly not to engage in a pissing contest.

[Brian Peacock]

The whole thing is a mockery. Poor people can't afford to be vegetarians and they dont have a veg and fruit rich diet as a consequence. Vegetarianism tends to be a middle class thing.

Not so sure about that. Meat prices here are very, very high. Having a vegetarian diet (including dairy) is certainly a cheaper option in Oz...

Well here Jim processed meat is very cheap and available in bulk. We are not talking steak or even mince. A box of hamburger deep freeze patties costs next to nothing. Along with deep freeze chips you have bulk meal. Forget the fruit and veg. We are talking about a small minority in this case which is a much larger section in the UK. Companies like Iceland are not pushing healthy diets.
Generally meat is not expensive. Our food is cheap if you dont go for the organic option which I personally do.

https://www.iceland.co.uk/frozen/vegetarian
https://www.iceland.co.uk/frozen/vegan

[Scot Dutchy]

And you live in Edinburgh the home of the deep fried Mars bar. Brian you are thinking very middle class. Go down to West Pilton where a pie supper is a luxury. Who is buying chicken breasts? Who is making sweeping statements about people in the west? Dont compare the UK to the rest of Europe. The comparison ends at Dover.

Really is funny organo-obesessive ! What in the name is that when it is at home. You should criticise the vegan-obsessive mob. I dont create any problems. I prefer organic and traceable food but accept I cant get it always.

[Scot Dutchy]

The whole thing is a mockery. Poor people can't afford to be vegetarians and they dont have a veg and fruit rich diet as a consequence. Vegetarianism tends to be a middle class thing.

Not so sure about that. Meat prices here are very, very high. Having a vegetarian diet (including dairy) is certainly a cheaper option in Oz...

Well here Jim processed meat is very cheap and available in bulk. We are not talking steak or even mince. A box of hamburger deep freeze patties costs next to nothing. Along with deep freeze chips you have bulk meal. Forget the fruit and veg. We are talking about a small minority in this case which is a much larger section in the UK. Companies like Iceland are not pushing healthy diets.
Generally meat is not expensive. Our food is cheap if you dont go for the organic option which I personally do.

https://www.iceland.co.uk/frozen/vegetarian
https://www.iceland.co.uk/frozen/vegan

What is the two links for? They are still selling crap. Just look.

[Brian Peacock]

And you live in Edinburgh the home of the deep fried Mars bar. Brian you are thinking very middle class. Go down to West Pilton where a pie supper is a luxury. Who is buying chicken breasts? Who is making sweeping statements about people in the west? Dont compare the UK to the rest of Europe. The comparison ends at Dover.

Really is funny organo-obesessive ! What in the name is that when it is at home. You should criticise the vegan-obsessive mob. I dont create any problems. I prefer organic and traceable food but accept I cant get it always.

What are you on about? You're choosing to dodge everything I said on what grounds now - on the basis of my postcode? How about responding to something I actually wrote rather than simply opining for a change? Have another go: pick anything from the list and we can discuss it...

• Food poverty and security are real problems for many people, in the West and around the world.
• Per calorie meat costs far more than fruit and veg to produce.
• Processed meat products are cheaper than raw meat but poverty doesn't oblige anyone to eat processed foods or meat to maintain a nutritious, well-balanced diet.
• The fact that I'm poor and don't eat processed foods or meat does not make me middle-class, it just identifies my personal and economic relationship with food.
• Vegetarians buy and eat everything a meat-eater does with the exception of one particular type of culinary ingredient.
• The poor people you identified who shop at Iceland can buy vegetarian and vegan products, which undermines your claim that poor people can't afford to be veg*n.

And to that you can add: A single food item (like a vegan burger from Iceland) isn't unhealthy in itself, in the same way that a single food item (like a doughnut) doesn't make you fat.

[Brian Peacock]

...
https://www.iceland.co.uk/frozen/vegetarian
https://www.iceland.co.uk/frozen/vegan

What is the two links for? They are still selling crap. Just look.

The point you're dodging is in part the one you made, that poor people shop at places like Iceland - but even if the stuff Iceland sells is 'crap' (though I don't know how frozen carrots or sprouts automatically become crap because they're from Iceland) poor veg*ns can shop there just like poor meat eaters can. Your comment suggests to me that you think one needs a certain economic standing to 'not eat crap' these days - and you might actually have a point there, but that does rather imply a reading of nutrition in terms of class. However, you still have to show that being a vegetarian is more expensive than meat if you're to support your claim that "Poor people can't afford to be vegetarians". Simple economics suggests otherwise.

FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert

[JimC]

While agreeing with all that Brian has posted, it remains true that, on average, impoverished groups in Western society do tend to have poor diets, and a lot of that diet consists of fast foods, typically with a fair amount of low quality processed meats. Partly it's habit, reinforced by blanket advertising...

[Scot Dutchy]

Well done Brian. Take a gold star.
You have once again done a lot of text but proved fa. I am sorry but you are giving a load of people far too much credit. They dont think like that. You are talking about the middle class who understand things like... Oh FFS Brian just go down to West Pilton, Muirhouse, Grantham or Wester Hailes and see how they live. The last time I was there the chippy was still the most important shop.
Healthy living? They have never known the term.

[Scot Dutchy]

While agreeing with all that Brian has posted, it remains true that, on average, impoverished groups in Western society do tend to have poor diets, and a lot of that diet consists of fast foods, typically with a fair amount of low quality processed meats. Partly it's habit, reinforced by blanket advertising...

I worked for five years amongst them. Not that much has changed especially in Edinburgh where god the tourist is number one.

[Scot Dutchy]

Hey Brian what's with the: "veg*ns". Is this the cover you hide behind because you are not a vegan?
Very middle class.

[Svartalf]

While agreeing with all that Brian has posted, it remains true that, on average, impoverished groups in Western society do tend to have poor diets, and a lot of that diet consists of fast foods, typically with a fair amount of low quality processed meats. Partly it's habit, reinforced by blanket advertising...

I can warrant to that,

[laklak]

I keep hearing that fast food is cheap but that's not exactly true. The average cost at McDonalds is $4.72 per person, Pizza Hut is $7.50. You're looking at about $20 for a family of four at Micky D's and $30 at Pizza Hut. I can make you a really nice meal for that much money out of fresh and healthy shit.