The Thread of Democrats

[pErvinalia]

Tax the rich! No socialism past that required. Also, an inheritance tax. 1% for me, 15% for Trump.

Right winger!

[Tero]

If Warren becomes president and does not fix Medicare, she will be done in 4 years. Its the least she will do. She will also deal with consumer protections and mortgage.

[Hermit]

Money talks and bullshit walks.

Too close to implying that if it's not money, it's bullshit for my liking. I prefer "When money talks all other voices are silent.

[Tero]

[Svartalf]

Money talks and bullshit walks.

Too close to implying that if it's not money, it's bullshit for my liking. I prefer "When money talks all other voices are silent.

Remember that in a USA context, it's indeed bulldreck if it's not moneymaking

[Brian Peacock]

Nah, that's another misrepresentation, but if you're not a socialist you're most likely a supporter of capitalism

I.e. a centrist at leftmost, according to your crackers ideas..

What's crackers? Capitalaism tends towards exploitation, and if you think that it can be tamed and harnessed for social goods then you're still supporting that liberal economic paradigm. Your problem is that you don't want to acknowledge that if you're argument against socialism your arguing for business-as-usual capitalism.

[Hermit]

Money talks and bullshit walks.

Too close to implying that if it's not money, it's bullshit for my liking. I prefer "When money talks all other voices are silent.

Remember that in a USA context, it's indeed bulldreck if it's not moneymaking

The USA is not greatly different to the rest of the world in that respect. Except for the Netherlands, of course.

[Svartalf]

tell that to French lefty bourgeoisie... they'll never agree that money is the only thing of value, culture goes first.

[Seabass]

[JimC]

Brian Peacock wrote:

...if you're argument against socialism your arguing for business-as-usual capitalism...

If you mean by socialism the full-on ownership of all the means of production by the people (or, more likely, their party representatives), then I suggest that you can strongly argue against it, for a variety of reasons, without being committed to "business-as-usual capitalism", certainly if that means the current form of capitalism that has corrupted the democratic process and captured the political class. Something with the flavour of nordic social democracy can indeed potentially tame capitalism, without either abandoning the virtues of free enterprise or surrendering to rule by apparatchik...

[pErvinalia]

Brian's position is unable to be that nuanced. It's black or white. Socialism or centrism (and further right).

To that point, there's no distinct line that marks the end of socialism and the start of capitalism. The Nordic social democracies have a good part of socialism in them. Brian of course thinks they are centrists too. Ridiculous, as I've pointed out before.

[Brian Peacock]

Well you've certainly asserted that point as fact many, many times, but I'm yet to read any kind of moral argument supporting it. Good job I'm not holding my breath eh?

And where's the nuanced position between socialism and captialism which does support capitalism? Centrism is like saying there's a nuanced middle-ground between the murderer and the person they want to murder, to which a centrist would say, "Now now, let's be reasonable here, let's compromise. Let him shoot you in the knee caps."

[pErvinalia]

You called social democrats centrists. Own your words.

[Brian Peacock]

Indeed I did, and I gave my reasons for that - not that you'll reflect and address those reasons in good faith or, as I said, present any kind of moral argument in support of your grand and copious assertions.

[laklak]

If I'm presented with a binary choice between socialism and capitalism then color me an unrepentant capitalist. Pretty much everything we take for granted today is a direct product of capitalism. If you remove the profit motive then you get the Eastern Bloc, we'd be driving cardboard cars and queuing for toilet paper. The aparatchiks would have 56k dialup and an extra sausage ration, the rest of us would smell of cabbage and Victory Gin.

I like my creature comforts and I cannot lie.

Then there's that whole "some other cunt telling me how to live" thing. Doesn't work with my All 'Murikan Fuck All Y'all attitude.